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[Music]

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hello

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and welcome to the show this evening i'm

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martin willis your host

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and our guest is john michael greer he

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has known out there as uh jmg so

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i'll probably be calling that a here and

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there um

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he has a very interesting and

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comprehensive background

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we're going to be talking about that he

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has written another book

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uh actually i think he might have said

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two i'm not 100

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i think i just talked to him about it um

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on ufos

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and the ufo chronicles and i think one

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was just called

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the ufo phenomenon now he has a book

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his latest one out of 50 books he's

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written and this one's called

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the ufo phenomenon fact fantasy

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and disinformation uh wow i like

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i like uh actually speaking to people

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who that are into a variety of topics

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and they kind of veer over

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into this very interesting one i like to

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hear what they have to say about it

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um so i i believe this is going to be an

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interesting show

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don't forget to check out our website

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podcast ufo and while you're there

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you can check out this week's blog by

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charles lear

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and it's called ufo now ufos and

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automotive interference in leveling

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texas

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a lot of people out there realize that

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this is a common thing

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that'll interfere maybe electromagnetic

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who knows what it is but

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there are a lot of cases like this but

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this happened back in november of 1957

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actually november 2nd and 3rd

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in 1957 um and it's a great

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it's a great blog check it out also um

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as i mentioned before if you are on our

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podcast feed wherever you get your

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your podcasts um if you are on there

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you get uh an audio blog about mid-week

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and uh so

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i encourage people to read the blog of

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course because there's all kinds of

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links in them

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but you'll get an audio blog read by the

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author himself

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charles lee or so it'll be right in your

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podcast

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feed a few things about future shows

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if you have not watched the body

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language panel on youtube

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about people in the ufo field i highly

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recommend it

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there are some great episodes and

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they've looked into some noted people in

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their ufo stories

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and that panel is most likely going to

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be on next week the panel of four

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uh this is where it gets tricky though

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they do what they do on tuesday nights

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and that's the only time they've been

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able to coordinate them

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all all four to get together but they're

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gonna try to work something out but

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that will be between um on youtube live

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somewhere between friday and monday

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night it will not be on tuesday night

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unfortunately the regular time

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however we will have the audio file over

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to kgra radio

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and we'll also have the podcast come out

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at the usual time

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but um if you want to get a notification

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on when that show is going to play live

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if you'd like to

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be in live and participate in chat

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and phone calls and all that um so the

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way i would suggest to do that is you go

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either to my website podcastufo.com and

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on the right sidebar

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you will see a mailing newsletter

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you just pop your email in there uh

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click on the link

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uh click on it and you'll get a link in

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you that'll be sent to you in your email

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to confirm it

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it's as simple as that and you'll get

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our weekly newsletter

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and it'll tell what time that is what

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time of day that will be playing

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or you also can subscribe to the youtube

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channel

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and you want to click on that little

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bell that's right next to the subscribe

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button

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that bell will send you notifications

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and email of what

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and when things are playing and if it

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gets annoying you can always click the

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bell again and that shut that will shut

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it off

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um as i mentioned it'll be out the

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podcast will be out

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on the regular time now if they just

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can't

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show next week

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i will have a family member of the kelly

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hopkinsville encounter

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at the regular time so i just had that

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as a backup

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so that will be that will be coming up

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now um if you watched netflix unsolved

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mysteries

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the berkshire um ufo i love that um and

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coming up we have this gentleman on

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youtube you can see

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uh tom warner um it's to be on the

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berkshire ufo

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i get i recently got him connected to

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philip mantle he's writing a uh he wrote

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a book

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and it looks uh looks good that philip

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is going to be publishing that

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and uh uh great guy i've spoken to him

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on the phone

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and so he will be on september 1st

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that's the

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51st anniversary of that incident

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so um anyway for some reason my screen

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has

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frozen i'm going to have to take myself

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out here in a minute

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and uh and uh

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yes i have to remove myself from the

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screen for a minute i'm not sure how

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that happened

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but uh no calls tonight i'm sorry we

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just

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had to have our guests on

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this evening however um in the chat room

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if you want to pose a question

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i might miss it so please use all caps

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for any questions that you have

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and i'll be sure to if it's an

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interesting enough question i'll be sure

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to ask our

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guest that question um

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getting back to podcastufo.com

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we have our patreon link over there and

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i have done this painting i think this

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is going to be my last ufo painting for

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a while

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i lived out in uh in the mill valley

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area in california actually a town

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called tiburon and i used to drive by

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this mountain it's called mount tam

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lapis

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or mount tam everyone calls it mount tam

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so this is a triangle ufo

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flying not over the mountain but between

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the mountain

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and the uh and myself

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as i would have painted i actually

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painted this uh

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on location and uh just added the ufo to

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it i think

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i think it's an interesting painting so

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i hope you enjoyed that that

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it's not even up on our website on my

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website yet but if you go to

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podcastufo.com

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and on the sidebar and you click the uh

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paintings

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uh little banner there it'll shoot you

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over and this should be up there in the

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next couple of days

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on the website uh that is enough for me

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and uh welcome to the show uh

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john michael career well thank you it's

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a pleasure to be on

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yes uh well i think you are a very

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interesting guy i'm

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working i'm just trying to get these uh

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things

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down here just a second here we go and i

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have to what i have to do

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if you could introduce yourself i

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actually have to i have to take myself

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out of the stream and back in again

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because i'm frozen so

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um if you could go ahead and introduce

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yourself and i'll be

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i'll be right back okay um i'm john

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michael greer

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as our host just said um i'm a writer

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and a blogger

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and a researcher into a variety of

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strange things

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like i'm sure many many of our of you

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listeners out there

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i got interested in everything weird

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when i was a kid when the world was

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just um obviously the world that i was

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being told about by my teachers parents

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etc

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was way too one-dimensional to be true

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so you know i was a werewolf expert by

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age 11.

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i read a lot of stuff about ufos a lot

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of stuff about unexplained phenomena of

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all kinds

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ended up getting very deeply into

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occultism and

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one thing followed another i ended up

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with a writing career

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writing books on occultism writing books

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on the future industrial society

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writing doing a weekly blog all that all

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the usual stuff that you do if you want

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to make a living with your pen

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um my research into ufos began of course

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quite a long time ago i

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as i mentioned i read all kinds of stuff

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that was coming out in the in

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the early 1970s when i was a kid i was

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first getting interested in this stuff

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and the conclusions that i came to it

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took a long time for me to figure out

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what i think is actually going on here

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the conclusions that i've come to are

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very different from those

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that are circulated either among the ufo

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believer community

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or among the shall we call them the

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pseudoskeptics the um the people who

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insist that

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anything they themselves didn't see

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can't exist right um

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i hope i hope that nobody will be too

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upset by my conclusions i offer them

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you know as my conclusions your mileage

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may vary but this is what i've seen this

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is what i've found

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and i think you'll find it interesting

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yeah

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and and that's okay like i i've had i've

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actually

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i'm not really sure what your

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conclusions are but um i want to

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of course talk about them and i'm i'm

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not afraid

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actually um because um you know i know

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a lot of people hold things really

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guarded but i'm just plain old

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interested in the topic and

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different people's thoughts on it so i'm

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i'm excited to hear

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to hear that uh you had first you had

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the ufo i mean the ufo phenomenon

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and actually after that you changed it

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to ufo the

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ufo chronicles or one of the right

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titles

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yeah that's the new version um the ufo

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phenomena was published um quite a few

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years ago i think it was 2009

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and that had kind of the first draft of

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my of of my argument conclusions

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such evidences i had been able to gather

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at that point

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after the publisher let it go out of

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print i placed it with another publisher

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and he said

284
00:10:02,069 --> 00:09:59,120
this is great can you expand it

285
00:10:03,430 --> 00:10:02,079
a year later he got a much heftier

286
00:10:03,990 --> 00:10:03,440
manuscript with a great deal more

287
00:10:06,230 --> 00:10:04,000
information

288
00:10:07,829 --> 00:10:06,240
in it um i didn't have to i actually

289
00:10:08,310 --> 00:10:07,839
didn't have to modify my conclusions but

290
00:10:10,949 --> 00:10:08,320
i had

291
00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:10,959
i honed them i got some explanations for

292
00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:11,920
things that i had not

293
00:10:15,110 --> 00:10:13,519
that i hadn't been still scratching my

294
00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:15,120
head in my head over

295
00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:17,920
but it's been quite an adventure and and

296
00:10:25,590 --> 00:10:18,880
the thing

297
00:10:27,509 --> 00:10:25,600
most baffling really about how so many

298
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:27,519
people relate to the ufo phenomenon

299
00:10:33,269 --> 00:10:30,240
is the idea that if it is that it has to

300
00:10:35,910 --> 00:10:33,279
be one of two things either ufos

301
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:35,920
are spacecraft from other worlds or you

302
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:36,720
never saw them

303
00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:40,240
they didn't exist um that's a really

304
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:42,720
odd belief if you'd if you stop and and

305
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:45,040
think about it

306
00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:46,560
why must it be only one of those two

307
00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:48,720
things ah

308
00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:51,120
yeah but you're right i mean a lot of

309
00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:52,240
people

310
00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:53,760
do feel that way and unfortunately

311
00:10:59,269 --> 00:10:56,000
that's actually in a way

312
00:11:02,069 --> 00:10:59,279
that's actually hurt um it's hurt

313
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:02,079
the ufo field in general because or even

314
00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:03,120
the word

315
00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:07,360
foil hats and you know crazy people

316
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:10,000
and and a lot of people now when they

317
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:11,279
want to talk about the subject they're

318
00:11:16,069 --> 00:11:13,040
using the word uap

319
00:11:19,190 --> 00:11:16,079
you know and said just because of

320
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:19,200
the stigma involved with the ufo you

321
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:21,839
know the rolling of the eyes or whatever

322
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:24,079
oh yeah and the the sad thing is that

323
00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:26,079
the term ufo came into being

324
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:27,920
as a replacement just the same kind of

325
00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:30,800
thing for flying saucer

326
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:33,760
because they were back in 47 48 49

327
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:35,519
flying saucer was the term that everyone

328
00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:36,000
used

329
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:38,000
and that got the eye rolls and then of

330
00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:39,600
course the ufo investigating community

331
00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:41,360
came up with the idea of ufo

332
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:43,360
unidentified flying objects something in

333
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:45,680
the air we can't identify

334
00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:47,760
nice but then of course you know the

335
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:49,200
same the same dynamic

336
00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:51,519
played out and i suspect 20 30 40 years

337
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:52,720
from now uap

338
00:11:55,990 --> 00:11:54,240
is going to get the eye roll to come up

339
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:56,000
with something else yeah well

340
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,040
i don't know it feels like the

341
00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:01,680
it feels like there's a lot of progress

342
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:02,240
in

343
00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:07,040
you know maybe i'm wrong but you know

344
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:09,120
when you get the government to actually

345
00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:12,720
um taken accountability for um you know

346
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,320
their studies and now uh

347
00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:17,040
you know a task force is being developed

348
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:18,720
you know from the pentagon through the

349
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:19,519
navy

350
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:22,480
um to study study ufos what they are and

351
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:23,279
stuff like that

352
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:25,200
so it feels like there's forward

353
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:26,720
movement lately

354
00:12:32,230 --> 00:12:29,920
um for the last few years

355
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:32,240
there may be there may be i just remind

356
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:33,279
you this has happened

357
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:40,949
blue book fiasco um i

358
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:42,560
i would argue that there's a reason for

359
00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:44,320
that and that

360
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:46,720
um the in particular the investigators

361
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:47,760
who have realized

362
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:49,680
the government is hiding something and

363
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:51,120
they're heavily involved in this whole

364
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:51,760
business

365
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:53,279
they're actually on to something very

366
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:55,279
very important that's that's part of my

367
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:56,800
part of my argument here

368
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:59,519
that you know there are mysterious

369
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,360
things in the sky

370
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:03,600
they are people are seeing things and

371
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:05,440
there are some of them are really quite

372
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:06,639
strange

373
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,959
and the government is into it up to

374
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:10,720
their eyeballs

375
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:13,600
but of course what what i've been led

376
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:14,720
what i've been led

377
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:16,079
to the conclusion i've reached as a

378
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:18,079
result of my studies is that there's

379
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:18,639
something

380
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:21,839
that it's not what it's being claimed to

381
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:23,519
be it's not what it's being presented

382
00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:24,959
and this whole notion that

383
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:27,200
it has to be a little green man from the

384
00:13:32,829 --> 00:13:29,519
or little gray man from zeta reticuli

385
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:32,839
or it can't exist at all is part of the

386
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:35,279
camouflage

387
00:13:38,949 --> 00:13:37,360
so i don't i don't want to jump totally

388
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:38,959
into the conclusion and the show's all

389
00:13:44,389 --> 00:13:40,399
over everything

390
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:44,399
so i want to you know i want to uh

391
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:46,959
you know hear the pieces of it um and

392
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:49,920
and how you came upon your conclusions

393
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:52,880
let's let's do that okay the first thing

394
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,680
the the

395
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:55,120
we we can do this with a little bit

396
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:56,959
historically okay um

397
00:14:02,310 --> 00:14:00,320
we can start with the genesis of the of

398
00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:02,320
the the flying saucer we you know

399
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:04,240
there's the original

400
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,279
1947 sightings um and the

401
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:09,279
flurry the wave of sightings that

402
00:14:13,509 --> 00:14:11,360
followed immediately thereafter

403
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:13,519
because it wasn't just you know the one

404
00:14:17,350 --> 00:14:15,440
guy in the airplane

405
00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:17,360
in the days immediately following his

406
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:19,360
sighting people all across america were

407
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:20,880
looking up and noticing little silver

408
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,240
dots moving through the sky

409
00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:24,240
many of them photographed in fact if you

410
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:26,079
go back to old newspapers

411
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:28,000
sometimes you can find reproductions of

412
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:30,079
the photographs it's quite interesting

413
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:33,360
little silver dots moving always west to

414
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:34,800
east

415
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:36,639
and of course it was in the middle of

416
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:38,880
that the whole the roswell thing popped

417
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:39,519
up

418
00:14:45,269 --> 00:14:44,160
and the um the air the arm the army air

419
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:45,279
corps as it was then the air force

420
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,560
didn't quite exist yet

421
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:48,079
announced that a flying saucer had

422
00:14:52,389 --> 00:14:49,279
crashed and then suddenly turned around

423
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,399
and said no no nothing like that

424
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:54,639
and people immediately said oh they have

425
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:56,959
something to hide indeed they did

426
00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:59,440
so that was that that was kind of the

427
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:00,800
seed time that was that was the

428
00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:02,800
beginning of the whole thing

429
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:06,079
and it caused a great deal of talk a

430
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:07,839
great deal of concern

431
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:11,199
um it faded out for a while people

432
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,720
weren't seeing anything

433
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:13,920
except here and there you'd have

434
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:15,279
somebody would see something odd in the

435
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:17,040
sky

436
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:20,079
then okay we're moving on to about

437
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:23,680
um the early 1950s 1952 was the next

438
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:26,240
really big flap and all of a sudden

439
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:28,000
people are seeing things all over the

440
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:29,600
place there's a big sighting over

441
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:30,959
washington dc

442
00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:33,360
things are being tracked on radar and

443
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:34,959
the air force is making all kinds of

444
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:36,880
claims about no no there's nothing there

445
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:39,199
and then leaking stuff about how there's

446
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:41,360
you know here are these radar things

447
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:42,880
there was a there was a regulation

448
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:44,399
passed um

449
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:46,399
a federal regulation which applied to

450
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:47,839
all military personnel

451
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:49,920
airline pilots and a variety of other

452
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,120
people who were subject to certain

453
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:53,279
national security regulations

454
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:56,399
and this rule had put a 10 year

455
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:58,399
prison term for leaking information

456
00:16:01,670 --> 00:16:00,240
about ufos

457
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:01,680
it wasn't uh let's see i think it was in

458
00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:03,680
the 1980s that was finally repealed now

459
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,680
here's the fascinating thing

460
00:16:09,189 --> 00:16:07,680
all of these airline pirates think that

461
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:09,199
the dash fortenberry sightings some of

462
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:09,920
these others

463
00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:11,920
air for air force another military

464
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:13,440
personnel lots of these people who were

465
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:14,720
reporting ufos

466
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:17,360
none of them were ever charged under

467
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,120
that regulation

468
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:21,120
so very clearly something curious is

469
00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:23,040
going on here you don't slap that kind

470
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:24,800
of draconian penalty and then don't use

471
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:25,600
it

472
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:28,639
so what we're talking about okay so

473
00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:32,560
1954 the ufos are all over the place

474
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:34,240
people could go out in the in the late

475
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:35,680
50s and early 60s

476
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,360
people could go out in certain areas for

477
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,000
ufo watching parties you would sit down

478
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:42,639
and you know toward the tour evening um

479
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:44,320
get a couple of beers park yourself on a

480
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:46,160
hill and watch the sky and sooner or

481
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:47,920
later you see this little dot

482
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:50,800
which would fly past or would turn it

483
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,320
would glint you couldn't really see it

484
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:54,399
clearly because it was way up in the sky

485
00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:56,240
but they were very predictable you could

486
00:17:00,150 --> 00:16:57,440
find they were

487
00:17:01,430 --> 00:17:00,160
people could watch them very easily and

488
00:17:03,829 --> 00:17:01,440
all this time

489
00:17:05,909 --> 00:17:03,839
of course the ufo research community was

490
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:05,919
getting going you had nycap

491
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:09,280
um you had um oh

492
00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:10,480
there were there were a couple i'm not

493
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:11,679
forgetting the acronyms just at the

494
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,799
moment but there were there were a

495
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:14,640
variety of the early

496
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:16,880
very influential ufo research

497
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:18,400
organizations

498
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:21,679
and all of them were staffed by spooks

499
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:23,280
they were full of people from the us

500
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:25,039
intelligence community

501
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:27,520
or u.s intelligence assets who nobody

502
00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:28,720
would you know who who were not

503
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:30,840
necessarily known as such

504
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:33,520
um you had you know some very

505
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:34,880
influential people

506
00:17:39,990 --> 00:17:38,000
um in the ufo scene who were in fact

507
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:40,000
um working for the working for the cia

508
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:41,120
or one of the other things

509
00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:42,880
at the same time you have the emergence

510
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,720
of the skeptic scene

511
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:46,720
and people like donald manziel and so on

512
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:53,430
so you know the you start you start to

513
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:54,880
get an idea of what's going on here it

514
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:58,160
is not necessarily what it appears to be

515
00:18:03,110 --> 00:17:59,600
the intelligence community and the

516
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:03,120
military in the u.s are all over it

517
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:06,799
and there are things in the sky now

518
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:09,280
let's take a step back what was actually

519
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:10,640
going on in the sky at that time that

520
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:12,320
nobody wanted to talk about

521
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:13,600
and this is where we start getting the

522
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:16,720
conclusions in 1947

523
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,720
the u.s was conducting secret

524
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:20,640
high-altitude balloon tests

525
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:21,840
we now know about them they've been

526
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:24,080
declassified project mogul

527
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:27,760
project flying cloud half of others um

528
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:29,679
they were they appeared when you saw

529
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:31,600
them like a little silver dot in the air

530
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:32,400
moving from right

531
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:34,160
moving from from west to east following

532
00:18:39,029 --> 00:18:37,440
the the jet stream okay

533
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:39,039
there were um product mogul in

534
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:40,799
particular was balloons with these big

535
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:43,440
um structures to catch found the goal

536
00:18:48,549 --> 00:18:44,960
was to snoop on

537
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:48,559
secret russian nuclear tests and

538
00:18:51,950 --> 00:18:50,160
all of a sudden everyone's talking about

539
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:51,960
ufos

540
00:18:56,789 --> 00:18:55,120
1954 and thereafter the u2 the most

541
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:56,799
secret airplane in the in the world at

542
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:58,240
that time

543
00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:00,559
the most high altitude plane at that

544
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:02,080
time was flying at an altitude

545
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:03,840
where people nobody believed an airplane

546
00:19:07,510 --> 00:19:05,679
could go um

547
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:07,520
the we now think of youtube as painted

548
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:08,720
black because they are

549
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:09,919
back in those days they were bare

550
00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:12,400
aluminum at sunrise or sunset

551
00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:14,480
you see one of us in the sky it blazes

552
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:16,000
like a bright

553
00:19:19,590 --> 00:19:18,480
red orange light and that was what

554
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:19,600
people were going out and seeing on

555
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:21,760
their ufo watching parties

556
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:25,120
okay the sr-71 was being tested at the

557
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:25,840
same time

558
00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:27,760
utterly secret the first couple of

559
00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:30,400
generations of u.s spy satellites

560
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:34,000
now back in three years before the

561
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:35,200
beginning of the ufo

562
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:38,960
thing um world war ii d-day is coming on

563
00:19:42,310 --> 00:19:40,720
and the u.s the us military and the

564
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:42,320
british military between them cooked up

565
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:43,200
one of the biggest

566
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:46,400
hoaxes in the history of warfare um

567
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:48,960
manufacturing a fake army right across

568
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:49,679
the the

569
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:52,480
english channel from from the pantecally

570
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:54,240
the one particular part of france to

571
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:55,600
convince the germans that that's where

572
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:56,640
they were going to invade

573
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:57,679
and then of course they moved their

574
00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:59,280
actual armies further western invaded

575
00:20:01,350 --> 00:20:00,000
enormity

576
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:01,360
they faked out the germans completely

577
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:04,080
they had inflatable tanks they had

578
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:05,840
non-existent military units they had

579
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:07,360
teams of actors designed to

580
00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:09,360
to make themselves look really busy to

581
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:10,960
to confuse aerial reconnaissance

582
00:20:17,669 --> 00:20:14,000
it was brilliant that same

583
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:17,679
pattern of thought i argue is what

584
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,240
guided the manufacturer of the ufo

585
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:25,350
basically we need to hide these things

586
00:20:28,149 --> 00:20:26,880
from the russians what are we going to

587
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:28,159
do well we can't pretend there's nothing

588
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:29,039
in the air okay

589
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:31,200
there's obviously something here i know

590
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:32,480
let's convince everyone there's little

591
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:34,559
green men from mars

592
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:37,039
and that i am convinced that's not all

593
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:39,039
that's going on with the old phenomenon

594
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:40,320
one of the great problems with the

595
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:42,240
phenomenon is that it's not just one

596
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:43,760
thing there's a variety of things

597
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:44,480
happening

598
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,240
but one of the core elements of the

599
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:48,480
story is that u.s air force intelligence

600
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:49,200
in particular

601
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:52,080
has been playing this thing from the

602
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:52,880
beginning

603
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:55,600
as a way to cover up its own um its own

604
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:56,320
activities

605
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:58,080
and to cover up what we're testing in

606
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,919
the air um here's another example you

607
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:01,520
mentioned triangle ufos do you remember

608
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:03,360
when those first showed up

609
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:06,320
yeah um there well uh dave marler is

610
00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:08,400
what who do you consider the expert

611
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:10,400
there have been some that have showed

612
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:11,600
all the way back uh

613
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:14,960
i believe in the early 20th century

614
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:18,799
um as far as um as far as

615
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:22,080
the masses of them starting

616
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:25,679
um the late 1970s um i know

617
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:27,600
you know a few people personally that

618
00:21:31,510 --> 00:21:30,000
i've seen them like in 1978

619
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:31,520
there were a few of them there were a

620
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:33,440
few of them in the very late 1970s

621
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:37,280
they really took off in the 1980s what

622
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:40,000
other black triangle was suddenly being

623
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:41,280
was was of um

624
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:43,840
top secret military importance in right

625
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:45,120
about that time

626
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:46,799
stealth technology yeah i thought you're

627
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:48,480
going to say that um

628
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:50,640
now i i do want to i do want to pause

629
00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:52,159
you right there though for a minute oh

630
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:54,000
go ahead go ahead i don't know

631
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:56,960
i tend to get excited and run go ahead

632
00:22:01,990 --> 00:21:59,360
um well there's a lot of cases

633
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:02,000
that um that something like this doesn't

634
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,559
fit

635
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:04,880
so and and that's what i i just want to

636
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:05,600
bring up

637
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:07,280
and that is you know for instance

638
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:09,039
thousands of people saw the phoenix

639
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:09,840
lights

640
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:13,600
and that was miles uh miles wide

641
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:17,200
not you know multiple miles wide and and

642
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:18,720
a lot of people say the same thing you

643
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:20,400
know maybe there is a technology where

644
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:21,280
they can

645
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,600
uh float with no sound and and like

646
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,200
anti-gravity or whatever it is they're

647
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:27,440
doing and uh

648
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,559
but when something is massive you know i

649
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:31,919
just can't see

650
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:34,159
and a lot of people are are claiming to

651
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:35,039
see things

652
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:37,280
you know at least several hundred yards

653
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:38,880
uh wide and longer

654
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:41,760
and wider um so that that's where it

655
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:42,400
just is

656
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:45,600
as a puzzle in uh

657
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:48,000
go on go on no that that that that

658
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:48,640
doesn't fit

659
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:52,320
a lot of what where i think you're going

660
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:54,559
well again one of the cr that's that's

661
00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:55,919
why i make the crucial point

662
00:23:02,230 --> 00:22:59,039
view of the ufo phenomenon is not just

663
00:23:04,390 --> 00:23:02,240
one thing yes it's basically

664
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:04,400
what we've got going on here is a

665
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:06,080
situation where

666
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:08,640
there is the the let's let's let's talk

667
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:09,600
about let's let's say

668
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:11,120
there's a social phenomenon called the

669
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:12,720
ufo we all have that image of the flying

670
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,320
saucer in our minds

671
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:16,720
um we've all we we all grew up at this

672
00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:17,919
point

673
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:20,000
with the idea of little green men in

674
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:21,520
flying sausage from mars or what have

675
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:23,280
you as part of our culture part of one

676
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:25,120
of our cultural myths if you will

677
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:29,039
and so around that set of images

678
00:23:32,789 --> 00:23:30,880
various different groups of people have

679
00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:32,799
been manipulating those things

680
00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:34,880
and there may be other things entirely

681
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:36,559
unrelated to

682
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:39,600
um people that also have something to do

683
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:40,480
with this

684
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,640
one of the things that that i think has

685
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:44,400
really gotten misplaced in

686
00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:47,039
in the whole um recent ufo research

687
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:47,840
generally

688
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:49,919
again it's getting stuck in that notion

689
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:52,080
that a ufo has to be an alien spacecraft

690
00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:53,760
or it never existed at all

691
00:23:57,029 --> 00:23:56,000
back in the 1950s there were there was a

692
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:57,039
lot of

693
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:59,679
much more um much more flexible much

694
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:00,640
more open

695
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:04,240
you know what could these things be um

696
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:06,400
there were there were there were several

697
00:24:09,909 --> 00:24:07,840
people who proposed they might be living

698
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:09,919
things in the upper atmosphere

699
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:12,320
there were um there were theories that

700
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,080
they were coming from

701
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,240
the oceans ivan sanderson wrote a

702
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:18,480
fascinating book about that and

703
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:22,159
broadly speaking um i think that i think

704
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,960
in some ways

705
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:24,559
in those days we were closer to the

706
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:26,240
answers precisely because

707
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:28,320
people were not stuck on one answer for

708
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:29,919
everything

709
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:32,320
the the thing that i've been talking

710
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:33,919
about the series of

711
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:36,400
disinformation campaigns carried out uh

712
00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:38,720
first by u.s military intelligence

713
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:39,919
and then more generally as other

714
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:41,600
countries got into the regard to the

715
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:42,400
stick

716
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:46,400
um that's one important thread

717
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,400
it's not the whole story but it's a very

718
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:50,000
important thread and watching if you

719
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,720
watch

720
00:24:54,070 --> 00:24:52,400
some of the important cases like the

721
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:54,080
whole paul benefits thing

722
00:24:57,430 --> 00:24:56,640
um oh yeah he was fit you know wait he

723
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,440
was fed

724
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,440
disinformation by air force intelligence

725
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:01,120
and literally even insane

726
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:03,200
ended up in asylum because they just

727
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:04,960
they they you know fed him all of this

728
00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:06,320
bizarre paranoia

729
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:08,320
stuff all of which ended up getting

730
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:10,559
retailed into the broader ufo community

731
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:13,600
um that's a classic example um the

732
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:14,000
evidence

733
00:25:16,710 --> 00:25:15,520
that i found that i cover in my book

734
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:16,720
shows that what happened there is the

735
00:25:20,230 --> 00:25:18,640
benefits without without realizing it

736
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:20,240
he was trying to research ufos he

737
00:25:25,029 --> 00:25:21,919
actually ended up snooping on

738
00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:25,039
um top secret projects at st at sandy

739
00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:26,400
laboratories

740
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:29,440
and so the intelligence services said i

741
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:30,480
know how to fix this

742
00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:34,080
and proceeded to say to feed him

743
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:37,520
gibberish until he cracked so he so they

744
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,960
could distract him from what was

745
00:25:42,870 --> 00:25:40,320
actually going on

746
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:42,880
and so that's a great example of again

747
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:45,600
one of the threads that's going on here

748
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:48,960
um but the thing is it's a the whole ufo

749
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:50,240
thing it's very strange

750
00:25:54,549 --> 00:25:52,240
and it's never it's not you can't just

751
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:54,559
flatten it out into a single answer

752
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:57,440
yes i think that's kind of one of the

753
00:26:00,630 --> 00:25:58,240
things

754
00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:00,640
that keeps me really fascinated by it

755
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:02,320
because uh you know i've said many times

756
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:03,919
in the show i feel like i

757
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:06,400
i know less than when i started you know

758
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:08,080
almost nine years ago

759
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:11,679
but um because it is and i i do agree

760
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:12,240
100

761
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:15,440
there isn't just um one answer and there

762
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:16,000
could be

763
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:19,600
to some of it we wouldn't even

764
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:20,880
understand

765
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:24,000
um that's a very good point going

766
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:25,520
back to the triangles though you were

767
00:26:27,909 --> 00:26:26,960
going somewhere with that about the

768
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:27,919
stealth

769
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:34,559
of other airplanes that are still top

770
00:26:37,350 --> 00:26:35,039
secret

771
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:37,360
uh the tr3 black manta which tactical

772
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:38,400
reconnaissance

773
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:41,520
and there the sr-92 aurora um an

774
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:43,440
another big big triangular stealth plane

775
00:26:45,430 --> 00:26:44,960
it's been cited a couple of times never

776
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:45,440
quite

777
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:47,279
no one's managed to photograph it yet

778
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:48,720
but um

779
00:26:53,669 --> 00:26:51,600
respected authorities say that it exists

780
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:53,679
um it doesn't get out much because it

781
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:54,400
uses

782
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:58,320
extremely complex um extremely expensive

783
00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:59,600
technology it takes like a million

784
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:00,720
dollars of flight

785
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:02,640
to keep that puppy in the air so we

786
00:27:05,269 --> 00:27:03,840
didn't see much of it do you remember

787
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:05,279
when the sr-71

788
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,720
was retired and it spent about

789
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:10,799
about 10 years being mothballed and then

790
00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:12,720
all of a sudden we were using sr-70 once

791
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:13,039
again

792
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,720
that's when the aurora finally became it

793
00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:16,320
became obvious the roar was simply too

794
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:17,600
expensive to use

795
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:20,480
so we have these stealth planes but we

796
00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:22,080
also have

797
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:25,360
these black triangles that kind of drift

798
00:27:28,549 --> 00:27:27,279
slowly by and not much more than tree

799
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:28,559
top level

800
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:32,240
um may you know some people listening

801
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:34,399
here are very faint buzz as though a

802
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:35,520
small engine is going

803
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:37,120
other people don't hear anything at all

804
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:38,880
they're outlined with lights um

805
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:40,559
if you get a good view of them you may

806
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:42,240
see a kind of framework that the lights

807
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:43,679
are connected to

808
00:27:47,590 --> 00:27:45,840
what exactly that is is a fascinating

809
00:27:48,149 --> 00:27:47,600
question but the us government has been

810
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:48,159
doing

811
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:50,720
research into airships lighter-than-air

812
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:51,520
airships

813
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:54,799
for quite some time now and my guess is

814
00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,399
what is what happens

815
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:57,840
at least some of those black triangles

816
00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:59,600
that's what they are

817
00:28:03,110 --> 00:28:01,200
and are they actually a military

818
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:03,120
technology anything no they're there to

819
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:03,520
fake

820
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:06,000
people out they're part of the they're

821
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,240
like the inflatable tanks

822
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,880
yeah around over so you get you get

823
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:12,240
basically a big airship with a lot of

824
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:13,840
bright lights and you cruise it over a

825
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:15,600
freeway so a thousand people see it

826
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:17,919
okay now we have um let's call him board

827
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:19,840
is bad enough we have a russian spy

828
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:21,440
he wants to find out about these these

829
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:23,600
weird comments these weird stories about

830
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:26,080
black triangle black triangular aircraft

831
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:29,679
what is what earth is the us up to and

832
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:31,200
most of what he hears about are these

833
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:33,279
slow floating things that go drifting

834
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:35,039
over you know westchester new york or

835
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:37,120
what have you um

836
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:39,279
he's going to be hopelessly confused

837
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:40,559
he's not going to be able to get

838
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:43,440
through that to the through that noise

839
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,399
to the signal

840
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:46,080
which is that we've got a stealth we've

841
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:47,600
got a working stealth technology

842
00:28:51,669 --> 00:28:51,279
and they don't so it's always necessary

843
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:51,679
in this

844
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:54,720
would be faking

845
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:57,039
what and what what will they be covering

846
00:29:01,669 --> 00:28:59,440
by it

847
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:01,679
and so that's that's basically where i

848
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:02,559
was going there

849
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:04,480
we have the stealth planes the ones that

850
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:06,240
are that are publicly admitted the ones

851
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:07,919
that are still top secret

852
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:10,320
um we have something else which is of

853
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:11,360
course very secret

854
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,760
which is drifting along uh at treetop

855
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:15,600
level freaking people out on highways

856
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:17,600
and gathering crowds of thousands

857
00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:20,799
um drawing as much attention to itself

858
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:22,960
as possible you'll notice that

859
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:24,960
a lot of the the slow-moving black

860
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:27,039
triangle things they go out of their way

861
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:28,399
to be seen

862
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:31,200
yeah i i have to agree with you um you

863
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:32,159
know a lot of people

864
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:35,440
will will you know make a suggestion

865
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:39,120
well um their military possibly

866
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:42,159
you know trying to fly over populated

867
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:43,440
areas so

868
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:45,279
um just to see what the public reaction

869
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:46,640
is i've heard that i've heard that

870
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:47,200
argument

871
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:50,399
a number of times yeah um yeah but i

872
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:51,600
don't think it's just for the public

873
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:52,880
reaction go on

874
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,880
no no no no finish your thought on that

875
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:56,399
and i have a question i want to pull up

876
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:57,279
on chat

877
00:30:01,590 --> 00:29:59,120
it's it's not it's not it's not public

878
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:01,600
reaction it's distraction

879
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:03,039
you know if you ever watch a stage

880
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:05,200
magician when he's

881
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:07,039
about to do something with his left hand

882
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:08,799
he makes these big gestures with his

883
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:09,360
right hand

884
00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:12,159
nobody watches them pull the extra a's

885
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,520
out of his pocket

886
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:15,600
that's what's going on here you have to

887
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:17,600
source the disinformation

888
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:20,559
watch where things are coming out now

889
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:21,760
again this will not solve

890
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:24,159
the all ufo cases but if we can get the

891
00:30:26,549 --> 00:30:25,760
air force out of the picture if we can

892
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:26,559
figure out

893
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:28,640
what has been manufactured as this

894
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:30,159
information sweep that aside

895
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,840
we have a better shot at understanding

896
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:33,440
what's left of the picture now go on you

897
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:34,000
got a question

898
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:36,320
yeah that makes uh makes a lot of sense

899
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:37,440
uh i'll say

900
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:40,480
uh mary grace has this question for you

901
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:42,240
those little this goes back to what we

902
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:43,360
were talking about earlier you were

903
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:44,640
talking about earlier those

904
00:30:49,029 --> 00:30:46,720
little shiny dots in the sky during the

905
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:49,039
1950s and 1960s

906
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:51,440
could have been the palladium spheres

907
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:54,159
attached to balloons

908
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:56,640
i'm not sure what palladium spheres are

909
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:57,440
actually that's

910
00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:00,000
that's primarily that yes that um

911
00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:00,880
palladium is

912
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:03,919
is a is a rare metal and um they were

913
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:05,519
using it to coat various things

914
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:08,320
in um in some of the various secret

915
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:09,600
tests that they were doing

916
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:13,200
it's very reflective and so um yeah that

917
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:14,880
actually is probably one of the things

918
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,720
that was spotted in the 19

919
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:18,720
the late 1940s and early 1950s when we

920
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:20,000
were doing all these

921
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:23,440
top secret balloon tests so yes

922
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:26,480
yeah yeah okay well again i'm going to

923
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:27,679
keep an eye on uh

924
00:31:32,070 --> 00:31:30,480
chat and uh and if i see a good question

925
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:32,080
i'll pop that in there and

926
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:35,840
ask you right so all right and

927
00:31:42,389 --> 00:31:39,600
um you know i i you're right about

928
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:42,399
also about the triangles as far as you

929
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:43,519
know what people have

930
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:45,760
said you know some people do hear the

931
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:47,039
buzzing sound

932
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:51,279
um i i also had a a friend that i was in

933
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:53,679
contact with when she was a young girl

934
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:55,360
about nine or ten years old

935
00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:58,080
and uh she's in her 30s now and she was

936
00:32:05,990 --> 00:31:58,880
in

937
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,000
with her i believe it was a grandmother

938
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:08,640
all of a sudden she felt this pressure

939
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:09,679
this pressure that

940
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:12,000
like almost forced her to the ground she

941
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,440
got down on the ground

942
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,600
and felt an extreme pressure just the

943
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:18,000
sky darken and she looked up and a big

944
00:32:21,909 --> 00:32:20,399
huge triangle was like floating over her

945
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,919
without any noise

946
00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:24,000
and that's what got her fascinated in

947
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:25,519
the topic

948
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:26,960
now did your grandmother see the

949
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:29,200
triangle oh yeah they both did yeah

950
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,919
okay okay that's one of the one of the

951
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,880
things that

952
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:34,640
that also has to be peeled out of the

953
00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:36,960
ufo phenomenon one of the other sources

954
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:37,679
of

955
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:42,960
a society american society modern

956
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:44,960
western industrial society

957
00:32:51,190 --> 00:32:48,080
ignores human visionary experience

958
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:51,200
okay people see things

959
00:32:53,990 --> 00:32:52,640
things that are real on some planet

960
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:54,000
certainly most you know most other

961
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:55,600
societies would say well you know

962
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:57,360
this is a spiritual thing or this is

963
00:33:03,110 --> 00:32:59,360
this this belongs to

964
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:03,120
to to the other world um jacques valet

965
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:05,360
one of course one of the great ufo

966
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:06,320
researchers

967
00:33:10,149 --> 00:33:08,960
um his book passport to magonia which

968
00:33:12,310 --> 00:33:10,159
pointed out that

969
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:12,320
an enormous amount of well certain

970
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:13,760
aspects of ufo lore

971
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,159
has exact equivalent in medieval fairy

972
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:18,960
lore come all the way down to abductions

973
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:21,600
and you know he just he just sort of put

974
00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:22,720
up the parallels

975
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,720
and this is something uh patrick harper

976
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,480
in his book demonic reality which is a

977
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:28,080
must read frankly

978
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:31,519
um he again points out we don't live

979
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:34,000
in the kind of flat two-dimensional

980
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:35,440
prosaic world

981
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:37,519
that we're taught we live in where we

982
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:39,279
live in a world that is interpenetrated

983
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:40,799
by strange things

984
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:44,320
and since most people in the industrial

985
00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:44,960
world have

986
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:47,120
no way of understanding that because

987
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:48,399
they've been taught not to they've been

988
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,519
taught

989
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:51,360
a radically incomplete view of what the

990
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:53,200
world is if they have a visionary

991
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:55,519
experience

992
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:57,440
what are they going to think of it how

993
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,799
are they going to interpret it

994
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:00,480
you know this weird they watched this

995
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:02,880
weird thing move through the sky

996
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:05,200
um you know 2000 years ago somebody

997
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:06,480
would have looked at us oh

998
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:07,840
you know spirits are doing something or

999
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:09,760
what have you but they all they have to

1000
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:11,280
the only explanation they have is wow

1001
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:16,629
no all right so like that's that's a

1002
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:18,000
that's another level of confusion i'm

1003
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:19,119
sorry go ahead

1004
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:21,040
no no i was i was agreeing with what you

1005
00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:22,560
were saying that's all

1006
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:25,040
yeah yeah so you know that's another

1007
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:26,800
that's another source of input

1008
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:28,879
and it's not us i would stress it's not

1009
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:30,399
a source of confusion it's not something

1010
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:32,480
we should ignore we should get away from

1011
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:34,159
we should you know act like a skeptic

1012
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:35,440
and turn our backs on what people are

1013
00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:36,480
actually seeing

1014
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:39,520
um it's important

1015
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:42,079
in traditional societies when strange

1016
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:43,760
things were seen in the air

1017
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:45,440
people paid attention to it scholars

1018
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:47,119
noted governments said

1019
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:49,679
okay what does that mean because these

1020
00:34:52,069 --> 00:34:51,359
kind of visionary experiences when they

1021
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:52,079
happen

1022
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:54,720
they have a message they're not just

1023
00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:55,599
they're not just

1024
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,599
stuff that happens carl jung understand

1025
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:59,599
that understood that very well

1026
00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:02,160
in his book on ufos he stressed that one

1027
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:03,200
way to understand

1028
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:06,160
them was as as a visionary experience

1029
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:07,359
it's something that people were

1030
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:08,480
encountering

1031
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:11,119
the the circular symbol of unity at a

1032
00:35:14,069 --> 00:35:12,560
time when the world was divided down the

1033
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:14,079
middle between the communists and

1034
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:17,119
and the communist bloc in the west um

1035
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:20,000
these these classic symbols of of

1036
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:22,000
polarity and harmony at a time when

1037
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:23,359
nations were threatening to blow each

1038
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:25,040
other up with nuclear bombs and he

1039
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:27,200
basically psychoanalyzed the world

1040
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,480
using ufos is the dreams

1041
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:32,560
and that's another that to my mind

1042
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:34,000
that's a very important part of the

1043
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:34,800
whole riddle

1044
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:37,599
that we need to understand that the ufos

1045
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:40,000
are one of the places where

1046
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:42,160
prosaic experience and visionary

1047
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:43,680
experience with the inside of our mind

1048
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:44,880
and the outside of our mind

1049
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:47,920
flow together and so that's one of the

1050
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:49,280
things that makes it so interesting to

1051
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:50,400
me it's not

1052
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:52,560
just out you know the truth is not just

1053
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:56,400
out there the truth is inside us as well

1054
00:36:01,270 --> 00:35:59,200
yeah yeah we had a guest on not that

1055
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:01,280
long ago maybe a month or two that

1056
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:04,000
uh was actually kind of going down the

1057
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:05,920
line where you're just talking about

1058
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:08,960
um i have a question up here uh from

1059
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:12,000
shawnee and how do you explain

1060
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:15,520
the interference with icbms and uh are

1061
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,640
you familiar with that

1062
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:18,880
that uh there has been you know uh

1063
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:20,240
reactions and

1064
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:22,960
actions of ufos over you know military

1065
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:24,079
uh

1066
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:25,440
weapons and things like that the first

1067
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:28,480
thing the first thing to ask yourself is

1068
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:30,160
where are you getting this information

1069
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:31,920
from

1070
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:34,240
in every case that i don't know she you

1071
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:35,359
know she can

1072
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:37,760
correct me if i'm wrong here but in the

1073
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:39,440
cases of that that i know of

1074
00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:42,240
the all of these reports are coming out

1075
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:43,200
of the military

1076
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:46,960
from military personnel now

1077
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:49,280
military personnel who speak about

1078
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:50,880
something like that without the

1079
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:52,880
um approval of their officers are going

1080
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:54,640
to end up in the scout

1081
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:55,920
so you know that what they're saying is

1082
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:58,400
being approved by their superiors

1083
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:00,079
that's one of the major sources of the

1084
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:01,760
disinformation we face

1085
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:03,920
because the millet you know the military

1086
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:05,760
is perfectly willing to have people say

1087
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:06,240
wow

1088
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:07,680
that must have been from outer space

1089
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:09,599
when they were testing something

1090
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:13,760
um so always look for the source

1091
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:15,839
where is this information coming from

1092
00:37:18,390 --> 00:37:17,760
who is generating it who is putting it

1093
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,400
out there

1094
00:37:21,910 --> 00:37:20,320
because that again that's where you see

1095
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:21,920
the stage magician dip his hand to his

1096
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:24,240
pocket and pull out the extra a's

1097
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:26,480
yeah you know i don't know you know i

1098
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:29,040
know i know someone personally

1099
00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:31,359
um that i talked to now and then and i

1100
00:37:35,589 --> 00:37:33,680
just can't see him as

1101
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:35,599
someone that would be deceiving people

1102
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:36,880
all these years and

1103
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:39,839
and there are some documents that to

1104
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:41,599
back up some of these things

1105
00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:44,720
uh too that have been um you know have

1106
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:45,680
been

1107
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:47,200
uh received through the freedom of

1108
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:49,200
information act um

1109
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:50,880
and there's a there's a lot going on

1110
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:52,320
when it comes to

1111
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:55,839
um ufos and nukes even uh

1112
00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:57,920
nuclear power plants you know when you

1113
00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:58,880
name it there's

1114
00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:01,359
there's quite a bit uh connected to that

1115
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,800
that's a whole topic

1116
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:04,800
that deserves a good look there are

1117
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:06,160
power plants or another matter because

1118
00:38:08,790 --> 00:38:07,119
they're again

1119
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:08,800
though many of those sightings have not

1120
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:10,480
been personnel those have been like

1121
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:12,000
neighbors people in the area

1122
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:13,680
and that's another thing and that's so

1123
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:16,320
that there again look for your source

1124
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:18,560
now i don't obviously i don't know the

1125
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:19,520
person you know

1126
00:38:22,710 --> 00:38:21,760
i don't know uh you know the basis for

1127
00:38:25,030 --> 00:38:22,720
your assumption that

1128
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:25,040
that they can be trusted um you know you

1129
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:26,800
may well be right

1130
00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:29,200
but it's a complicated world out there

1131
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:30,640
and there are a lot of people playing

1132
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:37,670
and okay justin just in a case like this

1133
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:40,720
since we're on this topic in particular

1134
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:43,440
um i do understand like if there's a you

1135
00:38:47,190 --> 00:38:44,240
know there's a

1136
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:47,200
military issue um you know a new craft

1137
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:48,960
that's out or something like that that

1138
00:38:53,030 --> 00:38:51,040
they you know they want to test and they

1139
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:53,040
maybe want to get a reaction or distract

1140
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:54,720
someone from seeing but

1141
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:56,000
you want to make sure those russians and

1142
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:58,079
the chinese don't figure out what it is

1143
00:39:04,390 --> 00:39:01,280
so yeah but then you have

1144
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:04,400
um you know our weapons

1145
00:39:07,829 --> 00:39:07,200
uh according to some our weapons are are

1146
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:07,839
messed with

1147
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:10,800
and altered and um this happened even in

1148
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:12,400
russia not just here you know it

1149
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:13,280
happened all over

1150
00:39:17,829 --> 00:39:15,760
a lot of places in the country um so

1151
00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:17,839
this happens

1152
00:39:21,589 --> 00:39:19,760
there's no just there's nothing to

1153
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:21,599
distract anyone from it doesn't make

1154
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:23,520
sense that the military would make up a

1155
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:24,640
story about

1156
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:26,960
something like this and and release

1157
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:28,720
something like this

1158
00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:31,280
because what could be distracting

1159
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:32,240
there's no

1160
00:39:39,670 --> 00:39:36,560
they're trying to hide

1161
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:39,680
when it comes to the you know nuclear uh

1162
00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:43,119
weapons being messed with well actually

1163
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:44,640
we don't know that

1164
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:46,240
we don't know what they are testing in

1165
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:47,680
the way of for example

1166
00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:54,470
okay now the nuclear the nuclear

1167
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:55,680
reactors are to my mind the more

1168
00:40:00,310 --> 00:39:57,599
interesting one precisely because

1169
00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:00,320
um they're it's not coming from inside

1170
00:40:02,950 --> 00:40:01,760
channels it's coming from people from

1171
00:40:04,230 --> 00:40:02,960
ordinary people who are simply

1172
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:04,240
witnessing it

1173
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:07,200
but um and you know i'll certainly i'll

1174
00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:08,960
certainly reconsider if i find if i find

1175
00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:10,640
out that

1176
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:14,160
reports of ufos apparently messing with

1177
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:15,200
icbms

1178
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:16,960
are coming from outside government

1179
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:19,200
channels

1180
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:20,800
anything the thing to remember is

1181
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:21,839
anything that comes out of the

1182
00:40:25,589 --> 00:40:23,520
government has to be suspect

1183
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:25,599
you have to assume that they are you

1184
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:27,920
know they are telling you what they want

1185
00:40:31,589 --> 00:40:29,119
you to think

1186
00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:31,599
not telling you what they know and we've

1187
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:33,200
seen that so many times at so many

1188
00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:34,160
places

1189
00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:37,040
and and that's that skepticism toward

1190
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:38,000
anything that comes out of the

1191
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:39,680
government especially

1192
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:42,319
when you know the the usual gimmick the

1193
00:40:45,510 --> 00:40:43,200
group of

1194
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:45,520
um air force intelligence officers who

1195
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:46,240
say well we're

1196
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:47,680
members of a secret group that's opposed

1197
00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:49,760
to ufo secrecy and we're going to pass

1198
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,200
on to you all these secrets and then we

1199
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:53,040
get the mj 12 documents

1200
00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:54,960
we get the project aquarius documents we

1201
00:41:02,790 --> 00:40:56,800
get the planet serpo documents

1202
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:05,990
well i i do i do have to tell you

1203
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:10,079
i do 100 agree with you that um

1204
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:11,520
you know our government doesn't is not

1205
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:13,680
always truthful there's many many cases

1206
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,400
of that

1207
00:41:19,829 --> 00:41:16,800
no no no government can ever be truthful

1208
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:19,839
they've always got secrets to hide

1209
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:21,440
you know they they're they're valid

1210
00:41:25,349 --> 00:41:23,119
secrets i mean i don't particularly want

1211
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:25,359
the russians and the chinese to know

1212
00:41:29,829 --> 00:41:28,079
everything we've got um that doesn't

1213
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:29,839
sound like a very good idea to me

1214
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:32,160
um and every government also keeps

1215
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:33,680
harmful secrets they want to

1216
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:35,040
conceal who's been dipping their hand to

1217
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:37,119
the public till and who wasted how much

1218
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:38,160
money on on

1219
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:39,760
such and such project because they were

1220
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:41,200
trying to you know

1221
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:42,880
bang the group and bang you know the

1222
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:44,880
wife of the of the

1223
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:46,880
you know the industrialist or something

1224
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:48,079
all this all the

1225
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:50,720
the tacky little secrets that every

1226
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:52,560
government ends up full of

1227
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:54,400
um yeah no governments are always hiding

1228
00:41:56,630 --> 00:41:56,160
things the question is how do we get

1229
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:56,640
past

1230
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:58,800
that and you know set those aside and

1231
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,920
say okay

1232
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:01,680
we can't really trust that what are our

1233
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:03,200
other sources of information

1234
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:05,200
and if we can pursue the ufo phenomenon

1235
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:07,520
that way and pick it apart into the

1236
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:09,680
into the different phenomena that we

1237
00:42:11,910 --> 00:42:10,560
lump together here

1238
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:11,920
i think it's possible to make some real

1239
00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:14,240
headway

1240
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:16,720
yeah very good let's go back to way way

1241
00:42:20,069 --> 00:42:17,280
back

1242
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:20,079
and that is to uh roswell what's your

1243
00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:22,400
opinion of roswell

1244
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:24,319
okay roswell is a really complicated

1245
00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:25,440
situation

1246
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:28,480
um we know something happened there um

1247
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:28,960
we know

1248
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:32,560
something crashed um

1249
00:42:37,030 --> 00:42:35,650
most of the published accounts um

1250
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:37,040
[Music]

1251
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:39,119
have been are have are frankly full of

1252
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:40,319
fiction and

1253
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:42,160
i include the skeptic accounts as well

1254
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:44,880
as the believer accounts if you look at

1255
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:46,720
for example what was the

1256
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:48,400
oh i'm forgetting the the name of the

1257
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:50,160
the book in the in

1258
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:52,800
the early 1970s that really put roswell

1259
00:42:56,829 --> 00:42:54,000
on the map

1260
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:56,839
like late 1970s uh yeah i know what you

1261
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:03,190
yeah now the thing if the thing about

1262
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:05,280
that if you read that book and then you

1263
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:05,599
go

1264
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:09,119
to the fake crash at aztec new mexico

1265
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:10,319
and that was a complete that was a

1266
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:11,520
complete hoax that was come up with a

1267
00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:13,119
couple of con by a couple of confidence

1268
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:13,520
man

1269
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:16,800
was busted in the early 1950s

1270
00:43:21,670 --> 00:43:19,839
um burlesque more at all

1271
00:43:23,589 --> 00:43:21,680
took details from the as from the

1272
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:23,599
account of the aztec crash come up with

1273
00:43:28,230 --> 00:43:26,000
with by those the two con men and put

1274
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:28,240
them into their account of the crosswell

1275
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:31,760
thing they literally patted it out with

1276
00:43:35,109 --> 00:43:33,520
material from another source

1277
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:35,119
and people have been repeating that

1278
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:37,680
uncritically ever since

1279
00:43:41,589 --> 00:43:39,680
one of the real problems with the whole

1280
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:41,599
the animosity between the skeptics and

1281
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:43,200
the believers at this point

1282
00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:45,599
is that both sides are so focused

1283
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:47,119
because so focus on trying to prove

1284
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:48,960
prove a point that they don't do the

1285
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:50,560
necessary research

1286
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:54,400
um my take this is now this is tentative

1287
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:56,800
this is this is quite tentative but my

1288
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,920
take is that

1289
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:59,280
there was something that crashed at

1290
00:44:02,870 --> 00:44:00,960
roswell it was

1291
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:02,880
probably one of the secret balloon tests

1292
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:04,880
i don't think it was project mogul

1293
00:44:07,829 --> 00:44:06,240
that was that's the one that's usually

1294
00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:07,839
been credited the one with the big

1295
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:08,720
complicated

1296
00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:13,040
hoo-ha that was trying to detect um

1297
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:15,440
sound waves from from russian nuclear

1298
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:17,200
tests there were several

1299
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:19,280
things up there uh several things being

1300
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:21,200
tested high in the atmosphere

1301
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:23,040
and some of them remain secret to this

1302
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:24,240
day

1303
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:27,200
um i think i know what one of them is i

1304
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:28,160
don't know if this is what was being

1305
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:29,760
tested at roswell but

1306
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:31,760
or what crashed at roswell during those

1307
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:33,200
of those tests

1308
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:37,440
but you got to put yourself in the

1309
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:39,599
in the mine space of the late 1940s

1310
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:42,240
early 1950s this is before icbms

1311
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:43,599
this was when nuclear weapons were

1312
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:45,359
delivered by bomber

1313
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,400
and when american military planners

1314
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:50,400
were petrified the thought of the

1315
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,839
russians you know the russians

1316
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:53,119
have these huge factories they can

1317
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:54,319
they're turning on bombers at a

1318
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:55,359
fantastic base

1319
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:58,000
they've got the nuclear bomb or in the

1320
00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:59,440
in the late 10th for

1321
00:45:02,829 --> 00:45:01,359
the late 1940s they were about to get it

1322
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:02,839
everyone knew that

1323
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:06,319
um and how do you stop them

1324
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:09,280
we'd seen in world war ii that um

1325
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:10,240
fighter planes can

1326
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:11,920
can stop a lot of bombers but they can't

1327
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:13,280
stop them all

1328
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:15,599
and the last you know so the nightmare

1329
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:17,280
of american strategic planners in those

1330
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:18,720
days was

1331
00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:20,240
bomber streams coming over the poll from

1332
00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:22,480
russia each one carrying nuclear bomb

1333
00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:24,319
and how many of them would get through

1334
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:26,400
so the response to that

1335
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:28,160
is a program of the project and this is

1336
00:45:32,069 --> 00:45:30,079
this is my theory okay

1337
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,079
there was a project this is fact called

1338
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:34,160
operation flying cloud

1339
00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:37,359
that was meant to loft

1340
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:41,200
atomic bombs on high altitude balloons

1341
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:43,760
now that's crazy for most purposes you

1342
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:45,119
can't steer a high aisle to do a balloon

1343
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:46,000
it goes wherever it wants

1344
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:48,000
to you you know if you tried to use

1345
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:49,200
those to bomb russia

1346
00:45:52,870 --> 00:45:51,760
you probably you just likely hit another

1347
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:52,880
country

1348
00:45:57,190 --> 00:45:55,359
but there's one hideously effective use

1349
00:46:00,550 --> 00:45:57,200
for that

1350
00:46:04,150 --> 00:46:00,560
lofting those bombs into a bomber

1351
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:04,160
stream if you can imagine an atomic bomb

1352
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:05,599
a hiroshima size bomb

1353
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:06,960
going off in the middle of a bomber

1354
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:09,040
formation a million seconds later all

1355
00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:10,240
those bombers are scrap

1356
00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:12,839
and their nuclear bombs are blown to

1357
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:14,319
pieces

1358
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:17,680
that's my theory of what was behind a

1359
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:18,480
lot of the

1360
00:46:23,910 --> 00:46:21,920
still secret

1361
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:23,920
in the late 1940s and early 1950s

1362
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:25,920
especially around 1952

1363
00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:27,760
we had come up with that as a last-ditch

1364
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:29,440
emergency defense in case the russians

1365
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,720
attacked with nuclear weapons in case

1366
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:32,400
they sent those bomber fleets

1367
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:35,520
and it's still secret to this day a

1368
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:37,599
because it's still a backup it's still

1369
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:38,960
available and b

1370
00:46:41,270 --> 00:46:40,160
because to make it work we probably

1371
00:46:42,630 --> 00:46:41,280
would have had to launch the balloons

1372
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:42,640
over canada

1373
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:44,240
and in other words what we're saying is

1374
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:45,760
we were preferred to nuke the canadians

1375
00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:47,520
in order to save the united states

1376
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:49,599
and can you imagine the international

1377
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:56,550
so so basically i don't know if it was a

1378
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:57,839
project flying cloud thing that came

1379
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:59,200
that crashed down or something in the

1380
00:47:02,550 --> 00:47:00,640
developmental stages of that

1381
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,560
that ended up crashing at roswell that's

1382
00:47:05,589 --> 00:47:04,079
one theory it might have been project

1383
00:47:06,150 --> 00:47:05,599
mogul it might have been a balloon

1384
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:06,160
system

1385
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:07,839
one of the balloon tests we haven't even

1386
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:09,359
heard about yet

1387
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:11,119
but that's my guess of what actually

1388
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:13,440
happened then what happened after that

1389
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:17,119
after moore and berlitz at all picked up

1390
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:18,640
the roswell thing padded out with

1391
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:20,240
materials from the fate from the aztec

1392
00:47:23,750 --> 00:47:21,119
fraud

1393
00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:23,760
and ran with it is that that became

1394
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:26,000
another place for disinformation

1395
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:27,440
that became another place where people

1396
00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:29,680
who had connections to

1397
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:31,920
u.s air force intelligence could pat out

1398
00:47:35,589 --> 00:47:33,359
the mythology and fill

1399
00:47:37,109 --> 00:47:35,599
fill in details and make it richer and

1400
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:37,119
more elaborate so people would look at

1401
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:38,160
aliens

1402
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:41,280
and not a project flying cloud well well

1403
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:42,960
here's my argument

1404
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:46,000
for that in particular uh there's

1405
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:47,440
feedback i'm gonna just pull you out

1406
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:49,760
you'll be able to hear me

1407
00:47:56,230 --> 00:47:52,800
so this uh this

1408
00:47:59,349 --> 00:47:56,240
uh it it doesn't

1409
00:48:03,349 --> 00:47:59,359
fit because in in a way it doesn't fit

1410
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:03,359
and that is because when this came

1411
00:48:07,109 --> 00:48:06,400
uh out that uh you know they captured a

1412
00:48:10,549 --> 00:48:07,119
flying

1413
00:48:12,069 --> 00:48:10,559
showed them

1414
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:12,079
the balloon they said it was just a

1415
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:13,599
weather balloon and all that

1416
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:16,640
the story died the story died for many

1417
00:48:20,790 --> 00:48:18,079
many years

1418
00:48:21,829 --> 00:48:20,800
and then uh witnesses in the roswell

1419
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:21,839
area

1420
00:48:24,870 --> 00:48:24,480
were contacted when the story became you

1421
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:24,880
know

1422
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:28,720
uh back into the uh stream

1423
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:30,720
and so they were contacted you know

1424
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:33,440
directly and uh former military

1425
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:36,240
and retired military and all that so i

1426
00:48:39,670 --> 00:48:37,760
don't see where you're talking about the

1427
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:39,680
aztec crash how that could have got

1428
00:48:42,230 --> 00:48:40,800
mixed in

1429
00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:42,240
since you know they were a few years

1430
00:48:46,790 --> 00:48:44,640
apart and uh

1431
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:46,800
that story was already out on its own

1432
00:48:50,950 --> 00:48:48,720
and roswell was uh

1433
00:48:51,930 --> 00:48:50,960
sleeping for many many years before it

1434
00:48:53,829 --> 00:48:51,940
came back to life

1435
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:53,839
[Music]

1436
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:55,680
well the thing no the point about about

1437
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:57,599
the aztec crashes specifically

1438
00:49:01,750 --> 00:49:01,119
if you read um burlitz more at all if

1439
00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:01,760
you read their

1440
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:04,079
their groundbreaking the book the book

1441
00:49:07,990 --> 00:49:04,960
that brought

1442
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:08,000
roswell back into public awareness okay

1443
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:09,520
and you go back and you read the

1444
00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:12,480
accounts of the aztec crash at the time

1445
00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:14,160
but there was a book of course you'll

1446
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:15,920
find entire sections of pros that were

1447
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:16,480
the

1448
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:18,000
burlap that are literally lifted out of

1449
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:19,839
the aztec book and plugged into their

1450
00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:21,440
account

1451
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:22,880
that's what i'm saying about the aztec

1452
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:24,960
thing and you're saying the witnesses of

1453
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:25,200
the

1454
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:29,440
saying that

1455
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:31,680
um i'm talk again i'm talking about

1456
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:33,040
burlitz and more

1457
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:34,800
and was it kondero was the third other i

1458
00:49:38,950 --> 00:49:36,480
forget who the third author was

1459
00:49:39,670 --> 00:49:38,960
that they plugged it in but how could

1460
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:39,680
they do that

1461
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:43,599
i mean what what access would they have

1462
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:45,839
again all you have to do is get a copy

1463
00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:47,040
of the the book

1464
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:49,359
uh you a flying saucer crash at aztec i

1465
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:50,400
forget the exact title

1466
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:51,599
something like that it was a published

1467
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:53,760
book okay it was readily available

1468
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:55,680
they doubtless had a copy it was i mean

1469
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:57,359
i read it back in the day

1470
00:50:00,870 --> 00:49:59,760
and all they had to do was type type

1471
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:00,880
details out of

1472
00:50:05,829 --> 00:50:04,240
book a into their manuscript that's what

1473
00:50:07,589 --> 00:50:05,839
i'm saying it didn't have any

1474
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:07,599
witnesses at all it had to do with

1475
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:09,280
writers who were more interested in the

1476
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:11,280
sensational story than in facts

1477
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:12,960
so you're saying people like bill moore

1478
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:15,119
and the other the co-author

1479
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:17,839
or that wrote the first book and stan

1480
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:20,240
friedman was involved in

1481
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:21,920
bill moore was up to his eyeballs in air

1482
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:23,359
force intelligence he's admitted

1483
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:27,119
yeah i i i know that he's admitted it

1484
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:29,040
so again what's your look for your

1485
00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:31,119
source as for charles burlitz

1486
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:32,800
um who was the primary author of the

1487
00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:35,119
whole thing um

1488
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:37,040
let's just say that his his literary

1489
00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:39,040
output generally involved a lot of

1490
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:40,960
playing fast and loose with facts

1491
00:50:44,950 --> 00:50:43,599
um he he was a sensationalist he was

1492
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:44,960
good at it

1493
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:48,559
want to know how to write sensational

1494
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:50,400
literature he you know his books are

1495
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:51,599
great if you want to know the facts

1496
00:50:56,069 --> 00:50:53,040
don't use his stuff

1497
00:50:57,589 --> 00:50:56,079
because um he would he was like eric von

1498
00:50:59,349 --> 00:50:57,599
danican you know another another really

1499
00:51:01,190 --> 00:50:59,359
good really successful writer

1500
00:51:01,740 --> 00:51:01,200
who loved to play fast and loose with

1501
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:01,750
the details

1502
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,160
[Music]

1503
00:51:07,270 --> 00:51:06,240
yeah well you know there's a lot of

1504
00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:07,280
people that have been

1505
00:51:13,109 --> 00:51:10,480
interviewed um that you know by

1506
00:51:14,309 --> 00:51:13,119
i i believe it's 600 witnesses uh

1507
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:14,319
supposedly and all

1508
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:17,680
uh that kind of share the same story so

1509
00:51:21,910 --> 00:51:20,240
um you know i don't know how many

1510
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:21,920
first-hand witnesses there were actually

1511
00:51:26,309 --> 00:51:23,520
but there were a lot of them

1512
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:26,319
supposedly that were interviewed um in

1513
00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:28,800
the beginning not not by just bill moore

1514
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:32,559
and his co-author but kevin randle um

1515
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:36,559
don schmidt and um i'm forgetting

1516
00:51:41,109 --> 00:51:39,520
uh just had him on this show there's

1517
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:41,119
been a whole series of pro

1518
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:43,200
of ufo believer interviews there have

1519
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:44,160
also been of course

1520
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:45,599
quite a few interviews conducted by the

1521
00:51:48,309 --> 00:51:47,920
other side and it's very interesting to

1522
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:48,319
watch

1523
00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:50,400
the the competing conclusions between

1524
00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:53,040
them um

1525
00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:55,680
it's like a car wreck we all know that

1526
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:57,040
when 10 people see

1527
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:58,480
see a car wreck they present 10

1528
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:00,880
different 10 different

1529
00:52:03,910 --> 00:52:02,720
statements and if they've all watched if

1530
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:03,920
they all have to watch repeated

1531
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:05,760
documentaries about car wrecks since

1532
00:52:09,030 --> 00:52:07,839
you know since the time 20 years ago or

1533
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:09,040
whenever um

1534
00:52:13,030 --> 00:52:11,520
that's going to shape their stories i

1535
00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:13,040
it's

1536
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:15,520
watching this whole thing become more

1537
00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:21,349
has been it's it's intriguing to watch

1538
00:52:24,870 --> 00:52:22,240
and

1539
00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:24,880
it would be really interesting to know

1540
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:26,720
what's going on behind it

1541
00:52:33,109 --> 00:52:30,000
um i just i don't

1542
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:33,119
find a lot of the claims that have been

1543
00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:34,480
in fact most of the claims that are

1544
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:35,680
currently being made about roswell i

1545
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:37,200
don't find them plausible

1546
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:39,040
and again your mileage may vary i'm not

1547
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,480
saying you have to believe me

1548
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,960
i'm saying this is my view i think it's

1549
00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:44,319
very possible by the way that there may

1550
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:44,720
have been

1551
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:49,440
on board

1552
00:52:52,950 --> 00:52:51,359
that was done in some of the balloon

1553
00:52:54,790 --> 00:52:52,960
tests

1554
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:54,800
and exactly you know exactly whether

1555
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:56,800
they were smaller than usual i don't

1556
00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:57,680
claim to know

1557
00:53:01,750 --> 00:53:00,160
but again we don't know what exactly was

1558
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:01,760
being tested there

1559
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:05,440
um we do there were a lot of balloon

1560
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:07,040
tests going on a lot of exotic ones and

1561
00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:09,520
some of them are still very secret

1562
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:12,160
um a lot a number of people have said

1563
00:53:17,910 --> 00:53:14,160
that they saw the debris field as

1564
00:53:20,230 --> 00:53:17,920
this very large field uh

1565
00:53:22,069 --> 00:53:20,240
i can't remember exactly the dimensions

1566
00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:22,079
of it but it was vast

1567
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:24,319
and you know this whatever whatever it

1568
00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:25,440
was big

1569
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:28,079
yeah and is that the case in the of the

1570
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:28,720
cloud

1571
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:32,319
mentioned but we don't

1572
00:53:35,589 --> 00:53:35,040
we don't know we literally have no idea

1573
00:53:37,990 --> 00:53:35,599
how

1574
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:38,000
big those it's all classified it's all

1575
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:39,280
still classified

1576
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:40,880
something was being tested in the late

1577
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:43,520
40s and it's still under lock and key

1578
00:53:47,190 --> 00:53:45,760
um that's unusual isn't it for all this

1579
00:53:48,950 --> 00:53:47,200
time to go buying it

1580
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:48,960
it's rather unusual that's one of the

1581
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:50,240
things that's fascinating but in fact if

1582
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:51,839
you look up operation flying cloud if

1583
00:53:55,750 --> 00:53:52,640
you look up

1584
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:55,760
um us balloon experiments you'll find

1585
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:57,599
scattered references to flying cloud

1586
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:00,240
so it was a definite it actually existed

1587
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:02,640
we just don't know what they were up to

1588
00:54:06,470 --> 00:54:05,839
um in the same way um pro the project

1589
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:06,480
mogul

1590
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:08,640
the the big the sound listening things

1591
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:10,480
the super the the substructure for those

1592
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:11,839
the sound concentration structure was

1593
00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:13,359
huge it was very light

1594
00:54:16,630 --> 00:54:14,880
but it was huge because they were trying

1595
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:16,640
to catch you know shock waves from

1596
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:18,240
nuclear blasts in

1597
00:54:22,470 --> 00:54:20,880
you know this in siberia coming at us

1598
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:22,480
over the pole so they have these huge

1599
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:24,400
concentrating patterns leading into

1600
00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:25,839
microphones that would also leave a

1601
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:28,079
large debris field

1602
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:31,040
interesting wow hey well we are ready to

1603
00:54:34,470 --> 00:54:31,440
go

1604
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:34,480
have a break about

1605
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:37,359
about four minutes long now during this

1606
00:54:41,030 --> 00:54:39,280
break if you're on youtube

1607
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:41,040
and i'll actually keep this in the

1608
00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:42,559
podcast as well

1609
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:44,160
um i'm going to be playing a clip from

1610
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:46,400
my good friend alejandro rojas he

1611
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:50,960
uh interviewed um louis alzando

1612
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:54,640
luis alezondo the other day lou alzondo

1613
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:57,200
and uh so i am going to play that clip

1614
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:58,400
and uh

1615
00:55:01,910 --> 00:55:01,200
and also i'm on his show every friday so

1616
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:01,920
i try to be

1617
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:03,839
i didn't actually make the last two but

1618
00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:06,960
we'll be right back um on kgra radio

1619
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:08,799
right after these messages and for

1620
00:55:11,380 --> 00:55:10,559
youtube hang in there

1621
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:11,390
for this clip

1622
00:55:21,190 --> 00:55:18,789
now uh one of the topics

1623
00:55:22,390 --> 00:55:21,200
that was brought up recently in the new

1624
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:22,400
york times and i know you

1625
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:25,440
you've spoken about this a little bit on

1626
00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:29,200
uh fox news and i've asked you

1627
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,440
about this a couple times is the topic

1628
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:33,359
of ufo crashes

1629
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:35,920
and the way the new york times framed it

1630
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:38,000
is that a couple of you at ttsa at least

1631
00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:38,640
a few

1632
00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:41,040
are convinced that this is a reality

1633
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:43,040
that this is something that's happened

1634
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:47,200
um first of all is that framing accurate

1635
00:55:50,549 --> 00:55:49,760
and you know is that topic kind of been

1636
00:55:54,069 --> 00:55:50,559
raised

1637
00:55:54,549 --> 00:55:54,079
uh also as a check to for these reports

1638
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:54,559
that hey

1639
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:56,079
you know if there is something out there

1640
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,079
on this topic we want you all to share

1641
00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:00,559
that information as well

1642
00:56:04,150 --> 00:56:02,559
so let me go back to the original

1643
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:04,160
statement about this people that you

1644
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:05,280
know in our organization that are

1645
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,400
convinced

1646
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:08,880
um and we've said this before there's a

1647
00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:10,720
fundamental difference between what

1648
00:56:14,069 --> 00:56:12,160
someone believes

1649
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:14,079
what someone thinks and what someone

1650
00:56:17,589 --> 00:56:15,440
knows right

1651
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:17,599
so i don't ever want to cross that

1652
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:18,880
barrier of what i

1653
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:21,119
think in fact the few times i've been

1654
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:22,880
pushed you know to a corner on this

1655
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:23,839
question

1656
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:25,920
i've tried very diligently to deflect

1657
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:27,119
because at the end of the day it doesn't

1658
00:56:30,309 --> 00:56:28,880
matter what luis elizondo thinks or

1659
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,319
believes what matters is what

1660
00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:32,000
what the data shows what do we have

1661
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:33,599
empirical data evidence

1662
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:35,920
that can speak for itself now we know

1663
00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:37,280
that this this

1664
00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:40,160
planet we live on earth is visited by

1665
00:56:43,270 --> 00:56:41,760
extraterrestrials all the time now wait

1666
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:43,280
before i go down that road people say oh

1667
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:44,880
my god lose saying aliens

1668
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:48,160
we have meteorites and we have have have

1669
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:52,160
debris from comets on a daily basis

1670
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:53,680
coming in re-entering the earth's

1671
00:56:55,750 --> 00:56:55,119
atmosphere getting caught in earth's

1672
00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:55,760
gravity

1673
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:58,480
coming in and and plopping down here

1674
00:57:01,349 --> 00:56:59,839
sometimes in people's living rooms

1675
00:57:04,470 --> 00:57:01,359
believe it or not right

1676
00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:04,480
so this is a the universe is not static

1677
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:07,040
uh it is dynamic it is always changing

1678
00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:08,880
things are always happening

1679
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:11,760
um and so the question is are the things

1680
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:13,200
some of these things that are found here

1681
00:57:17,109 --> 00:57:14,720
on this planet

1682
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:17,119
engineered are they are they let's go

1683
00:57:19,750 --> 00:57:18,720
this step beyond is it possible that

1684
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:19,760
some of these things that have been

1685
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:21,040
found that we know are not from this

1686
00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:22,000
planet

1687
00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:24,640
uh are they natural occurring things

1688
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:26,079
such as you know

1689
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:29,200
meteorites or whatnot meteoroids or are

1690
00:57:32,069 --> 00:57:30,000
these

1691
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:32,079
something that had some sort of

1692
00:57:36,789 --> 00:57:33,760
intelligence behind them

1693
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:36,799
um if you will in their

1694
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:39,520
in their their design and their function

1695
00:57:42,549 --> 00:57:40,640
uh

1696
00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:42,559
so that's the question and the bottom

1697
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:43,920
line is we're we're still trying to

1698
00:57:47,829 --> 00:57:44,960
answer that question

1699
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:47,839
uh um yes i'm obviously deflecting your

1700
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:48,720
your question here

1701
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:51,760
in in the politest way possible um

1702
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:53,760
but i'm always very careful to to

1703
00:57:58,069 --> 00:57:55,599
stipulate what i think look the internet

1704
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:58,079
and social media is full of people

1705
00:58:01,349 --> 00:58:00,160
espousing what they think and at the end

1706
00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:01,359
of the day i think

1707
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:02,880
most americans are probably tired about

1708
00:58:05,589 --> 00:58:04,559
hearing what about what other people

1709
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:05,599
think

1710
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:07,520
let's try to focus on on the areas we

1711
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:09,680
don't know yet and let's try to

1712
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:12,240
to provide information and data and

1713
00:58:20,829 --> 00:58:13,359
evidence

1714
00:58:20,839 --> 00:58:23,990
questions

1715
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:26,150
up i'm not sure if you heard any of what

1716
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:27,440
i just said

1717
00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:30,720
um i apologize uh because i was

1718
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:34,160
i'm hearing that yeah i was talking but

1719
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:34,799
i was

1720
00:58:40,789 --> 00:58:37,920
apologize for that

1721
00:58:41,670 --> 00:58:40,799
everyone so i was just going to say that

1722
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:41,680
i didn't want to

1723
00:58:45,190 --> 00:58:44,480
end the roswell story right there

1724
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:45,200
because

1725
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:47,280
um you know first of all i have a

1726
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:48,960
feeling that we'll probably never really

1727
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:49,599
know

1728
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:52,799
what actually happened there but um

1729
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:55,920
are you open to the fact that you know

1730
00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:57,920
maybe something else happened other than

1731
00:59:00,789 --> 00:58:58,960
and then

1732
00:59:02,549 --> 00:59:00,799
where you're going with this in

1733
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:02,559
particular

1734
00:59:05,670 --> 00:59:04,640
basic the thing is all i can do is offer

1735
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:05,680
a hypothesis

1736
00:59:08,470 --> 00:59:07,280
that doesn't i don't i don't claim to

1737
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:08,480
know the truth of the subject i wasn't

1738
00:59:11,829 --> 00:59:08,880
there

1739
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:11,839
you know and so did might something else

1740
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:12,720
have happened yes

1741
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:15,200
but i'm what i'm thinking is that all

1742
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:16,319
the evidence suggests

1743
00:59:19,589 --> 00:59:17,920
to me that what we're dealing with here

1744
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:19,599
is a balloon crash that has been

1745
00:59:23,910 --> 00:59:22,400
systematically surrounded with um

1746
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:23,920
deceptive camouflage

1747
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:25,440
to try to distract people's attention

1748
00:59:27,990 --> 00:59:27,359
that's my call i don't claim to be

1749
00:59:30,789 --> 00:59:28,000
omniscient

1750
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:30,799
could it be something else i suppose but

1751
00:59:36,950 --> 00:59:34,240
that's my best call as far as i can tell

1752
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:36,960
oh yeah well uh i don't know anything

1753
00:59:40,470 --> 00:59:38,480
else you want to add about roswell

1754
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:40,480
before we move on to something else

1755
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:43,680
no roswell one of the real problems with

1756
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:45,520
with ufo research recently

1757
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:48,480
to my mind is there's been this endless

1758
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:49,040
focus

1759
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:52,640
on a very small number of old cases

1760
00:59:57,109 --> 00:59:55,760
in many cases cases you know misusing

1761
00:59:59,190 --> 00:59:57,119
repeating the word unfortunately but in

1762
01:00:01,270 --> 00:59:59,200
many cases it's things that have been

1763
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:01,280
dug over and dug over and dug over an

1764
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:03,119
endless number of times

1765
01:00:07,349 --> 01:00:06,640
and we don't know and probably never

1766
01:00:08,950 --> 01:00:07,359
will know

1767
01:00:11,109 --> 01:00:08,960
in some of these cases what happened

1768
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:11,119
there um

1769
01:00:13,990 --> 01:00:12,480
so this one of the places where a

1770
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:14,000
broader view i think might be useful so

1771
01:00:15,510 --> 01:00:14,319
now

1772
01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:15,520
we can we can move on to something else

1773
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:17,920
if you like yeah i was just looking to

1774
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:19,200
see if there's anything in the chat

1775
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:22,160
on on that um on that in particular you

1776
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:23,680
know i i

1777
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:25,280
you know the the first thing that comes

1778
01:00:30,069 --> 01:00:27,040
to mind is i always think

1779
01:00:31,190 --> 01:00:30,079
well you know why why would the air

1780
01:00:33,349 --> 01:00:31,200
force even put

1781
01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:33,359
that out there to begin the army air

1782
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:36,240
force put that out there to begin with

1783
01:00:41,349 --> 01:00:39,440
you know the fact that uh uh you know

1784
01:00:43,349 --> 01:00:41,359
they say flying disc found

1785
01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:43,359
but you know you make the point or you

1786
01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:45,040
have made the point a number of times

1787
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:45,599
that

1788
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:47,839
you know don't trust them because

1789
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:48,880
they're it's

1790
01:00:52,309 --> 01:00:51,040
has to do with something else and uh

1791
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:52,319
that would be a good point

1792
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:55,520
actually in this particular case exactly

1793
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:56,400
they're saying

1794
01:01:02,390 --> 01:00:59,520
flying discs crashed rather than saying

1795
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:02,400
um oh yes this top secret um military

1796
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:04,240
project of ours just crashed

1797
01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:05,839
and i'm sure they had to scramble around

1798
01:01:08,549 --> 01:01:07,440
very fast to find a diffused weather

1799
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:08,559
balloon that they could

1800
01:01:12,390 --> 01:01:10,480
you know display to the to the reporters

1801
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:12,400
the next day

1802
01:01:15,430 --> 01:01:14,880
yeah i mean as uh stephen puts on you

1803
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:15,440
know the

1804
01:01:19,510 --> 01:01:18,000
on the chat here why did the air force

1805
01:01:21,030 --> 01:01:19,520
call the newspaper you know why did they

1806
01:01:24,069 --> 01:01:21,040
call them in the first place

1807
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:24,079
uh and that you know that does that

1808
01:01:27,750 --> 01:01:25,599
that is something to be questioned

1809
01:01:29,829 --> 01:01:27,760
because you know it's not like everyone

1810
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:29,839
in the world knew anything happened at

1811
01:01:34,549 --> 01:01:32,000
all

1812
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:34,559
but since people were seeing things ever

1813
01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:36,240
since that the original sighting over

1814
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:38,160
mount rainier

1815
01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:39,680
since people were paying attention to

1816
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:41,200
things in the sky

1817
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:43,119
feeding them with the idea that they're

1818
01:01:46,630 --> 01:01:44,960
flying saucers rather than

1819
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:46,640
balloon tests would have been crucial

1820
01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:48,559
just then to again to distract the

1821
01:01:53,430 --> 01:01:51,119
attention of the russians

1822
01:01:55,589 --> 01:01:53,440
so this would have been if one of the

1823
01:01:57,829 --> 01:01:55,599
you know balloon test crashed there

1824
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:57,839
there was probably some very very fast

1825
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:59,920
um conversations over the phone between

1826
01:02:03,910 --> 01:02:02,240
roswell and washington dc and somebody

1827
01:02:04,309 --> 01:02:03,920
in air force intelligence very high up

1828
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:04,319
says

1829
01:02:07,990 --> 01:02:06,400
tell him it's a flying disc tell us you

1830
01:02:09,589 --> 01:02:08,000
know um let's look

1831
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:09,599
we you've heard you heard this whole

1832
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:11,520
kennel kenneth arnold thing

1833
01:02:14,789 --> 01:02:13,839
about flying saucers let's claim it's

1834
01:02:17,109 --> 01:02:14,799
that

1835
01:02:18,789 --> 01:02:17,119
and from there the whole thing developed

1836
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:18,799
yeah i bet you're not saying in

1837
01:02:24,950 --> 01:02:21,520
particular that you think kenneth arnold

1838
01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:24,960
saw nothing or saw something that was

1839
01:02:28,150 --> 01:02:27,440
you know a potential cover-up you saw

1840
01:02:29,829 --> 01:02:28,160
something no

1841
01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:29,839
i mean the thing is kenneth arnold

1842
01:02:35,109 --> 01:02:31,920
that's a good case to start with because

1843
01:02:35,750 --> 01:02:35,119
arnold was an experienced pilot um he

1844
01:02:39,190 --> 01:02:35,760
was

1845
01:02:42,470 --> 01:02:39,200
used to you know spotting

1846
01:02:44,789 --> 01:02:42,480
um fires of forest fires from the sky

1847
01:02:46,309 --> 01:02:44,799
he knew how to observe so when he said

1848
01:02:48,150 --> 01:02:46,319
he saw something strange

1849
01:02:49,990 --> 01:02:48,160
flying your mount right here we need to

1850
01:02:51,430 --> 01:02:50,000
stop and say okay he saw something

1851
01:02:53,430 --> 01:02:51,440
strange what was it

1852
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:53,440
good question that's you know that's the

1853
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:54,640
really interesting question

1854
01:02:59,029 --> 01:02:57,680
what was it um and

1855
01:03:00,829 --> 01:02:59,039
now at this point though we're going to

1856
01:03:01,990 --> 01:03:00,839
get into something a little strange here

1857
01:03:05,670 --> 01:03:02,000
because

1858
01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:05,680
what he saw was not a disc

1859
01:03:08,710 --> 01:03:07,760
if you actually read his account and if

1860
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:08,720
you you know

1861
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:11,200
it was crescent-shaped almost like yes

1862
01:03:13,589 --> 01:03:12,240
yeah

1863
01:03:15,750 --> 01:03:13,599
it was crescent shaped with a little

1864
01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:15,760
point in the back it was moving very

1865
01:03:19,829 --> 01:03:16,400
quickly

1866
01:03:23,430 --> 01:03:19,839
there were there was flight of them and

1867
01:03:25,990 --> 01:03:23,440
yet because he said what to him this

1868
01:03:27,430 --> 01:03:26,000
movement appeared to be like a stone or

1869
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:27,440
a plate you know if you throw a stone

1870
01:03:30,150 --> 01:03:28,640
across the water just right into the way

1871
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:30,160
it skips

1872
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:31,920
and that's you can do that with a saucer

1873
01:03:34,150 --> 01:03:33,760
as well and that's why he mentioned the

1874
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,160
word

1875
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:36,400
saucer and all of a sudden it was flying

1876
01:03:40,950 --> 01:03:38,000
saucer

1877
01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:40,960
all of a sudden it was flying disc now

1878
01:03:46,150 --> 01:03:42,240
here's where things get

1879
01:03:48,230 --> 01:03:46,160
interesting because care to guess where

1880
01:03:49,990 --> 01:03:48,240
the image of the flying disc came from

1881
01:03:53,029 --> 01:03:50,000
when it got started

1882
01:03:53,589 --> 01:03:53,039
do you happen to know where the flying

1883
01:03:57,670 --> 01:03:53,599
disc

1884
01:04:01,910 --> 01:03:57,680
where that got going first

1885
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:01,920
before 1947 long before 1947

1886
01:04:05,109 --> 01:04:04,480
nope i can't think of where that would

1887
01:04:08,470 --> 01:04:05,119
be

1888
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:08,480
fiction it was invented by um science

1889
01:04:14,789 --> 01:04:11,119
fiction cover artists for the early sf

1890
01:04:16,870 --> 01:04:14,799
pulps they started doing disc shaped

1891
01:04:18,789 --> 01:04:16,880
aircraft and then those turned to disc

1892
01:04:20,950 --> 01:04:18,799
shaped spacecraft and it caught on it

1893
01:04:24,069 --> 01:04:20,960
was fat it was a fat it was a fashion

1894
01:04:27,270 --> 01:04:24,079
and so in the in the years leading

1895
01:04:29,029 --> 01:04:27,280
up to 1947

1896
01:04:30,710 --> 01:04:29,039
if you walked past a newsstand you knew

1897
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:30,720
back in those days you had newsstands

1898
01:04:35,270 --> 01:04:32,400
just about everywhere then magazines

1899
01:04:37,109 --> 01:04:35,280
brightly colored covers um you would

1900
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:37,119
probably you had a very good chance of

1901
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:37,920
seeing

1902
01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:40,079
a flying saucer on the cover of science

1903
01:04:42,230 --> 01:04:40,960
fiction magazine

1904
01:04:43,910 --> 01:04:42,240
and of course there were lots of science

1905
01:04:44,789 --> 01:04:43,920
fiction magazines in those days that was

1906
01:04:46,549 --> 01:04:44,799
the golden age

1907
01:04:48,470 --> 01:04:46,559
of the of the early golden age of the

1908
01:04:51,029 --> 01:04:48,480
genre and so

1909
01:04:52,710 --> 01:04:51,039
this idea of disc shaped aircraft really

1910
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:52,720
picked up it being fashionable

1911
01:04:57,910 --> 01:04:54,960
you found all kinds of illustrations

1912
01:05:01,750 --> 01:04:57,920
dating back to 1912

1913
01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:01,760
this idea got going in people's minds

1914
01:05:07,109 --> 01:05:04,640
and so when kenneth arnold saw a

1915
01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:07,119
crescent-shaped aircraft

1916
01:05:11,750 --> 01:05:10,160
my theory is it was actually a um a

1917
01:05:14,390 --> 01:05:11,760
flying wing

1918
01:05:14,789 --> 01:05:14,400
probably um formerly german they had a

1919
01:05:16,150 --> 01:05:14,799
if

1920
01:05:17,990 --> 01:05:16,160
you looked at the image of the german

1921
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:18,000
flying wings they have roughly that

1922
01:05:20,549 --> 01:05:18,880
shape

1923
01:05:22,150 --> 01:05:20,559
um but but i'm not i'm not wedded to

1924
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:22,160
that um explanation it's just one

1925
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:23,200
possibility

1926
01:05:27,109 --> 01:05:25,760
but kenneth arnold saw a crescent shape

1927
01:05:28,710 --> 01:05:27,119
and all these people look

1928
01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:28,720
up in the sky in the days immediately

1929
01:05:33,990 --> 01:05:30,960
after his report saw little silver

1930
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:34,000
little silver dots okay but everyone

1931
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:36,880
thought they saw flying discs

1932
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:38,640
everyone thought they saw flying saucers

1933
01:05:42,950 --> 01:05:40,000
because

1934
01:05:43,750 --> 01:05:42,960
that's what they were prompted to see

1935
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:43,760
and

1936
01:05:48,150 --> 01:05:45,200
at this point we're not talking the air

1937
01:05:50,230 --> 01:05:48,160
force but this is one of the things that

1938
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:50,240
i did i had not been able to chase down

1939
01:05:54,309 --> 01:05:52,160
at the time of the earlier

1940
01:05:55,270 --> 01:05:54,319
book the ufo phenomenon but in my

1941
01:05:57,589 --> 01:05:55,280
current book

1942
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:57,599
the ufo chronicles i was finally able to

1943
01:06:01,349 --> 01:05:58,319
figure out

1944
01:06:03,910 --> 01:06:01,359
what was going on there why that idea

1945
01:06:04,470 --> 01:06:03,920
of flying discs from other planets

1946
01:06:07,109 --> 01:06:04,480
suddenly

1947
01:06:09,349 --> 01:06:07,119
showing up all over the world how that

1948
01:06:11,670 --> 01:06:09,359
gone into public circulation before

1949
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:11,680
the ufos were first sighted well before

1950
01:06:15,510 --> 01:06:12,960
kenneth arnold i mean

1951
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:15,520
we we can talk in a little bit about um

1952
01:06:18,549 --> 01:06:17,200
things being seen in the sky dating back

1953
01:06:21,029 --> 01:06:18,559
into prehistory because of course that

1954
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:23,109
it was deliberate it was not done by the

1955
01:06:27,829 --> 01:06:24,720
government what had

1956
01:06:29,349 --> 01:06:27,839
what happened was that in the um

1957
01:06:31,349 --> 01:06:29,359
immediately after world war ii

1958
01:06:32,789 --> 01:06:31,359
immediately after hiroshima

1959
01:06:34,390 --> 01:06:32,799
an enormous number of people were of

1960
01:06:36,390 --> 01:06:34,400
course very worried that

1961
01:06:38,390 --> 01:06:36,400
world war iii would break out very soon

1962
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:38,400
and that we would all die

1963
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:41,440
and a group of people involved

1964
01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:43,520
in the this kind of intersection between

1965
01:06:47,829 --> 01:06:44,960
the science fiction scene

1966
01:06:49,589 --> 01:06:47,839
and the occult scene raymond palmer was

1967
01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:49,599
at the heart of this the legendary

1968
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,200
science fiction editor of amazing

1969
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:53,599
stories later founder of fate magazine

1970
01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:54,480
so on

1971
01:06:58,069 --> 01:06:56,640
a group of people around him seem to

1972
01:07:01,190 --> 01:06:58,079
have come up with a plan

1973
01:07:02,870 --> 01:07:01,200
of saturating the media with the idea

1974
01:07:04,309 --> 01:07:02,880
that flying saucers were going to come

1975
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:04,319
and rescue us from the risk of nuclear

1976
01:07:07,750 --> 01:07:05,520
war

1977
01:07:08,630 --> 01:07:07,760
story after story after story after

1978
01:07:11,670 --> 01:07:08,640
story

1979
01:07:12,630 --> 01:07:11,680
saturated the pulp magazines all on that

1980
01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:12,640
theme

1981
01:07:17,109 --> 01:07:14,880
there were there were hundreds of them

1982
01:07:19,349 --> 01:07:17,119
and cover illustrations showing

1983
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:19,359
you know green aliens descending from

1984
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:20,880
flying saucers

1985
01:07:26,309 --> 01:07:23,359
all over the place they were literally

1986
01:07:27,910 --> 01:07:26,319
priming the public imagination

1987
01:07:29,510 --> 01:07:27,920
now i don't think they were expecting

1988
01:07:31,349 --> 01:07:29,520
what happened when some when kenneth

1989
01:07:32,630 --> 01:07:31,359
arnold saw whatever it was he saw

1990
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:32,640
and people started looking up and going

1991
01:07:36,309 --> 01:07:34,480
wow look at those dots those must be

1992
01:07:38,069 --> 01:07:36,319
those flying saucers

1993
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:38,079
you know i read about in in you know

1994
01:07:40,829 --> 01:07:39,440
amazing stories

1995
01:07:43,109 --> 01:07:40,839
but that's that seems to be what

1996
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:43,119
happened but it was literally

1997
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:46,160
it was in effect an attempt to

1998
01:07:50,950 --> 01:07:49,280
um to keep people to keep the world from

1999
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:50,960
blowing itself up

2000
01:07:55,910 --> 01:07:53,520
by getting the idea out there that there

2001
01:07:56,789 --> 01:07:55,920
were alien intelligence watching us that

2002
01:07:59,190 --> 01:07:56,799
there were other

2003
01:08:00,069 --> 01:07:59,200
beings from other worlds looking down at

2004
01:08:01,829 --> 01:08:00,079
us

2005
01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:01,839
and you know it's it's it's really

2006
01:08:05,109 --> 01:08:03,280
clever psychology

2007
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:05,119
uh jean-paul fox the existentialist

2008
01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:06,960
philosopher has this great

2009
01:08:10,710 --> 01:08:09,119
piece in his in his book being in

2010
01:08:11,910 --> 01:08:10,720
nothingness you imagine yourself and

2011
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:11,920
imagine yourself

2012
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:13,920
um at a keyhole you're looking through a

2013
01:08:15,910 --> 01:08:15,359
keyhole at something well we don't have

2014
01:08:17,189 --> 01:08:15,920
to

2015
01:08:18,709 --> 01:08:17,199
talk about what you're looking after the

2016
01:08:19,269 --> 01:08:18,719
heel but you're looking at something to

2017
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:19,279
kill

2018
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:20,880
all your attention is on what's on the

2019
01:08:24,149 --> 01:08:22,799
other side of the keyhole

2020
01:08:26,229 --> 01:08:24,159
then all of a sudden you hear something

2021
01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:26,239
behind you and you realize somebody's

2022
01:08:30,309 --> 01:08:28,080
been watching you look through the queue

2023
01:08:31,269 --> 01:08:30,319
and all of a sudden your entire state of

2024
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:31,279
mind changes

2025
01:08:33,669 --> 01:08:32,239
you're not paying attention to the

2026
01:08:34,950 --> 01:08:33,679
keyhole you're turning bright red

2027
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:34,960
because you know somebody just caught

2028
01:08:40,229 --> 01:08:36,960
you

2029
01:08:43,829 --> 01:08:40,239
what ray palmer

2030
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:43,839
and um the rain me lane and a range of

2031
01:08:46,149 --> 01:08:45,440
other people who worked with them were

2032
01:08:48,550 --> 01:08:46,159
trying to do

2033
01:08:50,149 --> 01:08:48,560
was get that reaction to get people go

2034
01:08:51,590 --> 01:08:50,159
oops somebody's watching us maybe we

2035
01:08:53,430 --> 01:08:51,600
shouldn't be so stupid about throwing

2036
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:53,440
the glue bombs around

2037
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:55,199
did they succeed we'll never know um

2038
01:08:59,990 --> 01:08:57,040
certainly we're still here

2039
01:09:01,749 --> 01:09:00,000
but that's that was the thing that i

2040
01:09:03,829 --> 01:09:01,759
hadn't been able to trace down

2041
01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:03,839
the what was it that primed the popular

2042
01:09:09,269 --> 01:09:06,080
imagination to look for

2043
01:09:10,229 --> 01:09:09,279
for flying discs to to see anything in

2044
01:09:11,910 --> 01:09:10,239
the sky

2045
01:09:13,349 --> 01:09:11,920
and identify it as a flying disc for

2046
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:13,359
another planet

2047
01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:15,199
that this was there was this organized

2048
01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:17,440
attempt using science fiction primarily

2049
01:09:20,870 --> 01:09:18,960
but motivated from within the occult

2050
01:09:23,349 --> 01:09:20,880
community to carry this thing out

2051
01:09:25,349 --> 01:09:23,359
it's an amazing story again it's covered

2052
01:09:29,510 --> 01:09:25,359
in detail in my book um

2053
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:29,520
the ufo chronicles all right well do you

2054
01:09:33,510 --> 01:09:32,640
um you know i mean the the sighting that

2055
01:09:35,510 --> 01:09:33,520
i had

2056
01:09:38,309 --> 01:09:35,520
the only sighting that i think was you

2057
01:09:42,789 --> 01:09:38,319
know really a solid sighting

2058
01:09:46,309 --> 01:09:42,799
um was a disc a disc right over my head

2059
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:46,319
you know with a light blue hue to it

2060
01:09:49,829 --> 01:09:49,199
uh no sound stopped and then took an

2061
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:49,839
angle

2062
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:52,560
uh toward toward monterey when i was out

2063
01:09:58,149 --> 01:09:55,440
in california and uh

2064
01:10:00,229 --> 01:09:58,159
i i can't it sounds like you're going

2065
01:10:02,149 --> 01:10:00,239
almost down the line of this is a pop

2066
01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:02,159
culture phenomenon that

2067
01:10:07,350 --> 01:10:05,520
influence people um but

2068
01:10:09,430 --> 01:10:07,360
when i when you're sitting there and

2069
01:10:11,350 --> 01:10:09,440
your mind is you know i've been in

2070
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:11,360
a hot tub many times and relaxing

2071
01:10:15,350 --> 01:10:12,719
looking up at the

2072
01:10:15,990 --> 01:10:15,360
the satellites moving over and and never

2073
01:10:18,149 --> 01:10:16,000
even thinking

2074
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:18,159
about a ufo and then all of a sudden

2075
01:10:22,709 --> 01:10:19,280
that appears

2076
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:22,719
there it is yeah and you know

2077
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:24,239
this is this is what this is where you

2078
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:26,880
have to remember the sort of thing that

2079
01:10:29,590 --> 01:10:28,400
patrick harper was talking about in

2080
01:10:32,390 --> 01:10:29,600
demonic reality

2081
01:10:33,669 --> 01:10:32,400
we do not live in the prosaic universe

2082
01:10:35,750 --> 01:10:33,679
we think we live in

2083
01:10:37,350 --> 01:10:35,760
and when when i say something is a pop

2084
01:10:38,709 --> 01:10:37,360
culture phenomenon that doesn't mean

2085
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:38,719
that it's just limited to the pages of

2086
01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:40,000
pop culture magazines

2087
01:10:43,430 --> 01:10:42,320
people experience these things the

2088
01:10:45,430 --> 01:10:43,440
crucial thing we have

2089
01:10:46,870 --> 01:10:45,440
that that the thing the skeptics can't

2090
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:46,880
deal with is that people are

2091
01:10:51,669 --> 01:10:48,480
actually seeing strange things in the

2092
01:10:53,350 --> 01:10:51,679
sky now in any one any given case can i

2093
01:10:56,229 --> 01:10:53,360
be identified for sure what it is

2094
01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:56,239
no not necessarily um what did you see i

2095
01:11:00,630 --> 01:10:57,280
don't know

2096
01:11:02,229 --> 01:11:00,640
um i'm pr i i'm sure you saw something

2097
01:11:04,630 --> 01:11:02,239
and i'm sure it probably was basically

2098
01:11:06,390 --> 01:11:04,640
you know made a bluish disc that

2099
01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:06,400
you know did an angle in the zap and

2100
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:09,520
zipped away many people have seen those

2101
01:11:13,990 --> 01:11:12,640
um that's where we start getting into

2102
01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:14,000
the interesting part of the story

2103
01:11:17,270 --> 01:11:15,760
because that's something that is not

2104
01:11:19,830 --> 01:11:17,280
almost certainly not being manufactured

2105
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:19,840
by the air force

2106
01:11:24,630 --> 01:11:23,120
yeah and you know i i'm not i have no

2107
01:11:27,750 --> 01:11:24,640
idea what it was

2108
01:11:30,229 --> 01:11:27,760
i'm not claiming that it was you know

2109
01:11:31,270 --> 01:11:30,239
aliens i don't know what it was but i

2110
01:11:32,709 --> 01:11:31,280
sure know that it was

2111
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:32,719
something and you know that's why i'm

2112
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:35,040
having this show right now

2113
01:11:39,990 --> 01:11:39,120
that influence exactly and that openness

2114
01:11:44,070 --> 01:11:40,000
to

2115
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:44,080
unidentified

2116
01:11:48,149 --> 01:11:46,080
flying object flying object we don't

2117
01:11:49,990 --> 01:11:48,159
know what it is that to my mind

2118
01:11:52,229 --> 01:11:50,000
is the thing that too many people lose

2119
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:52,239
in the in all the backing and forthing

2120
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:53,600
about ufos

2121
01:11:58,390 --> 01:11:56,400
that you know we don't know and as long

2122
01:12:02,950 --> 01:11:58,400
as we may we remain stuck on specific

2123
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:05,430
yeah i i believe you're right uh let me

2124
01:12:08,709 --> 01:12:07,120
just see

2125
01:12:10,390 --> 01:12:08,719
okay so if someone wants to ask

2126
01:12:12,149 --> 01:12:10,400
questions uh uh bo

2127
01:12:14,310 --> 01:12:12,159
you just put something in caps but if

2128
01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:14,320
someone wants to ask a question please

2129
01:12:19,270 --> 01:12:16,000
do it in all caps otherwise

2130
01:12:21,030 --> 01:12:19,280
um just just uh you know

2131
01:12:22,630 --> 01:12:21,040
type along there there's a lot of

2132
01:12:25,270 --> 01:12:22,640
interaction

2133
01:12:27,270 --> 01:12:25,280
in the uh and uh some of what you're

2134
01:12:29,910 --> 01:12:27,280
saying is not real popular i'll be um

2135
01:12:31,750 --> 01:12:29,920
i'll be honest with you no the thing is

2136
01:12:33,030 --> 01:12:31,760
i'm well aware that what i'm saying is a

2137
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:33,040
minority view

2138
01:12:36,310 --> 01:12:35,280
and i'm also well aware that i may or

2139
01:12:37,750 --> 01:12:36,320
may not be right

2140
01:12:39,669 --> 01:12:37,760
but these are the conclusions that i've

2141
01:12:41,430 --> 01:12:39,679
come to and

2142
01:12:44,070 --> 01:12:41,440
you know if other people want to pursue

2143
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:44,080
other avenues of inquiry that's great

2144
01:12:47,270 --> 01:12:45,679
the last thing we need is a monoculture

2145
01:12:49,590 --> 01:12:47,280
of ideas

2146
01:12:50,709 --> 01:12:49,600
and what do you think you know jay uh

2147
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:50,719
posts up here

2148
01:12:56,070 --> 01:12:54,000
um asks ask you if uh if you believe

2149
01:12:58,229 --> 01:12:56,080
it's possible that we're being visited

2150
01:12:59,669 --> 01:12:58,239
and and um you know from what i'm

2151
01:13:02,550 --> 01:12:59,679
gathering your story

2152
01:13:02,950 --> 01:13:02,560
is you know maybe that's part of you

2153
01:13:05,030 --> 01:13:02,960
know

2154
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:05,040
correct me if i'm wrong but maybe that's

2155
01:13:10,149 --> 01:13:07,040
part of

2156
01:13:11,590 --> 01:13:10,159
you know the whole uh puzzle but uh but

2157
01:13:13,189 --> 01:13:11,600
you think there's a lot of other things

2158
01:13:15,030 --> 01:13:13,199
going on

2159
01:13:16,229 --> 01:13:15,040
um i'm quite sure there are a lot of

2160
01:13:18,870 --> 01:13:16,239
other things going on

2161
01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:18,880
are we being visited by um other

2162
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:19,440
physical

2163
01:13:22,950 --> 01:13:21,360
intelligent beings from different from

2164
01:13:25,750 --> 01:13:22,960
from some distant planet

2165
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:25,760
um i have no idea there are some very

2166
01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:26,560
good arguments

2167
01:13:30,070 --> 01:13:28,239
against it but you know one can't prove

2168
01:13:31,750 --> 01:13:30,080
a negative um

2169
01:13:34,709 --> 01:13:31,760
i would want to see some solid evidence

2170
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:34,719
for it there are many different kinds

2171
01:13:37,189 --> 01:13:35,920
of you know one of one of the things

2172
01:13:38,709 --> 01:13:37,199
that i picked up through my studies in

2173
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:38,719
the occult is an awareness that

2174
01:13:42,070 --> 01:13:40,080
there are many different kinds of

2175
01:13:43,510 --> 01:13:42,080
intelligent being not all of whom have

2176
01:13:46,709 --> 01:13:43,520
physical bodies

2177
01:13:48,310 --> 01:13:46,719
and so you know this this we get into

2178
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:48,320
you know quote woo-woo

2179
01:13:52,310 --> 01:13:50,640
um territory here but it's territory

2180
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:52,320
against exactly discussed in quite some

2181
01:13:55,590 --> 01:13:53,040
detail

2182
01:13:57,030 --> 01:13:55,600
in passport and begonia and that and of

2183
01:13:59,990 --> 01:13:57,040
course john keel was all

2184
01:14:00,870 --> 01:14:00,000
over that and i think he john keel was

2185
01:14:02,550 --> 01:14:00,880
really the

2186
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:02,560
probably of all the ufo the old ufo

2187
01:14:05,110 --> 01:14:03,520
writers he's the one that probably

2188
01:14:07,350 --> 01:14:05,120
influenced me most strongly

2189
01:14:08,630 --> 01:14:07,360
because his notion of the super spectrum

2190
01:14:09,990 --> 01:14:08,640
of the idea of

2191
01:14:11,750 --> 01:14:10,000
different modes of reality

2192
01:14:14,790 --> 01:14:11,760
interpenetrating with ours

2193
01:14:16,310 --> 01:14:14,800
to my mind that explains much more

2194
01:14:18,870 --> 01:14:16,320
about the really high strangeness

2195
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:18,880
aspects of the ufo phenomenon

2196
01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:21,600
than anything that we're seeing from um

2197
01:14:25,270 --> 01:14:23,520
or any explanation that involves

2198
01:14:28,149 --> 01:14:25,280
you know nuts and bolts spaceships being

2199
01:14:30,870 --> 01:14:28,159
flown by by biological aliens

2200
01:14:32,070 --> 01:14:30,880
yeah we have a question up here uh from

2201
01:14:33,510 --> 01:14:32,080
mary grace again

2202
01:14:35,910 --> 01:14:33,520
are you saying that people are

2203
01:14:38,790 --> 01:14:35,920
hallucinating or that they're

2204
01:14:43,270 --> 01:14:38,800
manifested it in their mind or have

2205
01:14:45,110 --> 01:14:43,280
manifested it in their minds

2206
01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:45,120
hallucination is one of those very

2207
01:14:48,229 --> 01:14:46,719
awkward words

2208
01:14:50,070 --> 01:14:48,239
that a lot of people a lot of

2209
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:50,080
materialists use to explain

2210
01:14:56,070 --> 01:14:53,280
things or to explain away things

2211
01:14:57,189 --> 01:14:56,080
that they don't want to deal with um i

2212
01:14:59,830 --> 01:14:57,199
would say that

2213
01:15:01,189 --> 01:14:59,840
people are perceiving things but they're

2214
01:15:03,910 --> 01:15:01,199
not necessarily perceiving things

2215
01:15:06,229 --> 01:15:03,920
through their physical senses

2216
01:15:06,950 --> 01:15:06,239
and you know that things are manifested

2217
01:15:08,470 --> 01:15:06,960
in our minds that's

2218
01:15:09,990 --> 01:15:08,480
that's perfectly that's a good way to

2219
01:15:12,870 --> 01:15:10,000
say it really but

2220
01:15:14,790 --> 01:15:12,880
um you know we we have we have various

2221
01:15:16,470 --> 01:15:14,800
ways of perceiving things and

2222
01:15:17,830 --> 01:15:16,480
the handful that are talked about in

2223
01:15:21,270 --> 01:15:17,840
modern industrial society are not

2224
01:15:25,830 --> 01:15:24,149
now what about about some of your

2225
01:15:29,189 --> 01:15:25,840
theories here but when there's a

2226
01:15:31,189 --> 01:15:29,199
mass sighting you know uh and and one of

2227
01:15:34,229 --> 01:15:31,199
them i'm just uh someone put this up

2228
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:34,239
o'hare uh andy who calls in um can't

2229
01:15:38,149 --> 01:15:36,640
unfortunately no calls today but uh

2230
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:38,159
o'hare i don't know if you ever checked

2231
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:41,440
into gate c17 back in 2006

2232
01:15:47,350 --> 01:15:44,560
um when there was a a disc

2233
01:15:49,110 --> 01:15:47,360
over o'hare and they had there was

2234
01:15:49,510 --> 01:15:49,120
certainly something that a lot of people

2235
01:15:52,870 --> 01:15:49,520
saw

2236
01:15:54,149 --> 01:15:52,880
yes my basic assumption this is this is

2237
01:15:55,990 --> 01:15:54,159
a starting point this is not a

2238
01:15:57,510 --> 01:15:56,000
conclusion it's a starting assumption

2239
01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:57,520
is that when you see a when you have a

2240
01:16:00,950 --> 01:15:59,280
mass sighting when you have um

2241
01:16:02,630 --> 01:16:00,960
dozens or hundreds of people spotting

2242
01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:02,640
the same thing and they describe it the

2243
01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:03,840
same way

2244
01:16:07,510 --> 01:16:04,800
you're dealing with something that's

2245
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:07,520
physically there when you're dealing

2246
01:16:10,870 --> 01:16:08,400
with something

2247
01:16:11,669 --> 01:16:10,880
where one person perceives it another

2248
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:11,679
don't

2249
01:16:15,189 --> 01:16:13,440
where you know somebody perceives it

2250
01:16:17,270 --> 01:16:15,199
alone or where there's a lot of

2251
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:17,280
really high strangeness going on that

2252
01:16:20,470 --> 01:16:18,719
looks like visionary experience then

2253
01:16:20,950 --> 01:16:20,480
it's probably something on the visionary

2254
01:16:22,229 --> 01:16:20,960
end

2255
01:16:25,430 --> 01:16:22,239
rather than something on the physical

2256
01:16:27,510 --> 01:16:25,440
end so whatever was above o'hare

2257
01:16:29,110 --> 01:16:27,520
there apparently was indeed something

2258
01:16:32,390 --> 01:16:29,120
physical up there what was it

2259
01:16:33,990 --> 01:16:32,400
good question yeah

2260
01:16:35,430 --> 01:16:34,000
yeah that's that is a real good case and

2261
01:16:38,550 --> 01:16:35,440
it was kind of

2262
01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:38,560
you know uh um it was

2263
01:16:42,310 --> 01:16:40,800
i don't want to say covered up but uh

2264
01:16:44,229 --> 01:16:42,320
you just will not be able to you

2265
01:16:45,910 --> 01:16:44,239
no one could be interviewed for that or

2266
01:16:48,550 --> 01:16:45,920
or very few people could

2267
01:16:50,070 --> 01:16:48,560
i i really think that something got

2268
01:16:51,510 --> 01:16:50,080
spotted that was not supposed to be

2269
01:16:53,910 --> 01:16:51,520
spotted

2270
01:16:55,510 --> 01:16:53,920
yeah and so there was gonna be the oops

2271
01:16:58,630 --> 01:16:55,520
covered this you know

2272
01:16:58,950 --> 01:16:58,640
no interviews no information no you know

2273
01:17:05,510 --> 01:16:58,960
we

2274
01:17:07,110 --> 01:17:05,520
a statement and a question i agree with

2275
01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:07,120
him about valley and keele's

2276
01:17:10,870 --> 01:17:09,520
ultra-terrestrial explanations are more

2277
01:17:13,270 --> 01:17:10,880
accurate than most ufo

2278
01:17:14,229 --> 01:17:13,280
community want to see and really examine

2279
01:17:15,669 --> 01:17:14,239
i think it's often

2280
01:17:16,790 --> 01:17:15,679
along those lines so that was just a

2281
01:17:17,590 --> 01:17:16,800
statement all the way through i thought

2282
01:17:20,470 --> 01:17:17,600
there was

2283
01:17:21,910 --> 01:17:20,480
oh here was the question right here um

2284
01:17:24,630 --> 01:17:21,920
what about radar hits

2285
01:17:27,910 --> 01:17:24,640
of unknown objects uh through the years

2286
01:17:30,390 --> 01:17:27,920
the testimony of commercial pilots etc

2287
01:17:31,510 --> 01:17:30,400
okay um the test and first of all you

2288
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:31,520
have to ask

2289
01:17:34,950 --> 01:17:32,880
where are you getting the information

2290
01:17:36,070 --> 01:17:34,960
from the radar heads if it's coming from

2291
01:17:38,070 --> 01:17:36,080
the military

2292
01:17:39,669 --> 01:17:38,080
don't trust it if it's coming from

2293
01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:39,679
civilian airline pilots

2294
01:17:43,189 --> 01:17:41,280
pay attention to the regulations that

2295
01:17:44,550 --> 01:17:43,199
govern civilian airline pilots they're

2296
01:17:46,390 --> 01:17:44,560
actually subject to military discipline

2297
01:17:47,990 --> 01:17:46,400
or they were up until the 1980s

2298
01:17:49,910 --> 01:17:48,000
they were subject to the regulations

2299
01:17:51,110 --> 01:17:49,920
that i mentioned that made speaking out

2300
01:17:52,950 --> 01:17:51,120
about ufos

2301
01:17:54,950 --> 01:17:52,960
um a federal offense that could get you

2302
01:17:56,550 --> 01:17:54,960
ten years in the slammer and yet cases

2303
01:17:58,390 --> 01:17:56,560
like the nash fordenberry sighting you

2304
01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:58,400
know two commercial airline pilots who

2305
01:18:01,669 --> 01:18:00,400
were governed by that regulation

2306
01:18:03,830 --> 01:18:01,679
and they talked to the news and they

2307
01:18:05,430 --> 01:18:03,840
talked to the media all over the place

2308
01:18:06,709 --> 01:18:05,440
many of these i am convinced that many

2309
01:18:08,070 --> 01:18:06,719
of these things were faked that many

2310
01:18:10,550 --> 01:18:08,080
things they were they you know

2311
01:18:12,229 --> 01:18:10,560
it was their patriotic duty to help

2312
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:12,239
spread disinformation so somebody from

2313
01:18:15,189 --> 01:18:12,960
air force

2314
01:18:16,950 --> 01:18:15,199
intelligence came to them and said uh we

2315
01:18:19,270 --> 01:18:16,960
want you to do something for us

2316
01:18:20,550 --> 01:18:19,280
you know for your country that do not

2317
01:18:21,750 --> 01:18:20,560
you know we are not going to answer too

2318
01:18:23,830 --> 01:18:21,760
many questions but this is what you're

2319
01:18:26,550 --> 01:18:23,840
going to say you saw

2320
01:18:28,310 --> 01:18:26,560
um in the especially in the 1950s in the

2321
01:18:30,550 --> 01:18:28,320
middle of the red scare and so on

2322
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:30,560
peop we know we know for a fact that

2323
01:18:33,430 --> 01:18:32,080
people did that in other contexts so

2324
01:18:35,430 --> 01:18:33,440
there were a lot of

2325
01:18:37,110 --> 01:18:35,440
false stories being spread things like

2326
01:18:37,669 --> 01:18:37,120
that to to confuse the russians and so

2327
01:18:39,189 --> 01:18:37,679
on

2328
01:18:40,870 --> 01:18:39,199
and i think that's a lot of what was

2329
01:18:43,830 --> 01:18:40,880
going on there always

2330
01:18:44,390 --> 01:18:43,840
always what's your source look for the

2331
01:18:45,830 --> 01:18:44,400
source

2332
01:18:47,590 --> 01:18:45,840
that's where you see the magician

2333
01:18:49,030 --> 01:18:47,600
dipping his hand into his pocket

2334
01:18:50,870 --> 01:18:49,040
and if it again if it comes from the

2335
01:18:52,630 --> 01:18:50,880
government if it comes from the military

2336
01:18:54,149 --> 01:18:52,640
if it comes from anybody who is subject

2337
01:18:55,350 --> 01:18:54,159
to military discipline as commercial

2338
01:18:59,750 --> 01:18:55,360
airline pilots

2339
01:19:01,510 --> 01:18:59,760
um think twice be aware that you may be

2340
01:19:03,910 --> 01:19:01,520
you may be being fit what they want you

2341
01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:03,920
to think and not what actually happened

2342
01:19:08,950 --> 01:19:05,760
all right well let's go into the rental

2343
01:19:11,350 --> 01:19:08,960
shrimp forest for a case

2344
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:11,360
yeah happened back in 1980 now i know

2345
01:19:14,870 --> 01:19:12,719
charles hald i know uh

2346
01:19:16,470 --> 01:19:14,880
a few other people that uh were

2347
01:19:18,149 --> 01:19:16,480
first-hand witnesses to that

2348
01:19:20,070 --> 01:19:18,159
and you know military again you're

2349
01:19:22,390 --> 01:19:20,080
talking military but here's

2350
01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:22,400
here's the catch and and and your your

2351
01:19:26,870 --> 01:19:23,440
theory and in this

2352
01:19:28,149 --> 01:19:26,880
in particular is that um they didn't

2353
01:19:30,229 --> 01:19:28,159
want that leaked

2354
01:19:31,350 --> 01:19:30,239
you know i mean charles hall told me you

2355
01:19:32,870 --> 01:19:31,360
know the best thing that could have ever

2356
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:32,880
happened in his life is that

2357
01:19:36,149 --> 01:19:35,520
you know that story was never leaked and

2358
01:19:37,990 --> 01:19:36,159
you know

2359
01:19:39,750 --> 01:19:38,000
his tape his tape didn't get out of

2360
01:19:40,390 --> 01:19:39,760
there you know audio tape that he

2361
01:19:42,550 --> 01:19:40,400
recorded

2362
01:19:44,550 --> 01:19:42,560
during the incident no that was that was

2363
01:19:47,030 --> 01:19:44,560
not supposed to come out because

2364
01:19:48,310 --> 01:19:47,040
um let's let's take a step back from

2365
01:19:49,590 --> 01:19:48,320
that what happened at reynolds from

2366
01:19:53,910 --> 01:19:49,600
forest we have

2367
01:19:54,950 --> 01:19:53,920
um two raf bases leased to the u.s air

2368
01:19:58,550 --> 01:19:54,960
force

2369
01:19:59,350 --> 01:19:58,560
okay we have that night an undefined

2370
01:20:02,709 --> 01:19:59,360
radar blip

2371
01:20:04,709 --> 01:20:02,719
coming in fast we have

2372
01:20:07,189 --> 01:20:04,719
all kinds of evidence that something

2373
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:07,199
crap something made in emergency landing

2374
01:20:10,870 --> 01:20:08,880
something was described as drum beat

2375
01:20:14,070 --> 01:20:10,880
please a black triangle

2376
01:20:17,270 --> 01:20:14,080
what was going on in 1980 again early

2377
01:20:23,830 --> 01:20:20,470
so over there though what

2378
01:20:25,030 --> 01:20:23,840
in england tested in england no that

2379
01:20:27,270 --> 01:20:25,040
that point we're past this

2380
01:20:28,790 --> 01:20:27,280
we're past immediate test but there's

2381
01:20:30,870 --> 01:20:28,800
there's there's some interesting timing

2382
01:20:33,510 --> 01:20:30,880
i think it was set by 78

2383
01:20:34,870 --> 01:20:33,520
was when the the the stealth technology

2384
01:20:37,189 --> 01:20:34,880
was really solidly

2385
01:20:38,629 --> 01:20:37,199
in place and yet it wasn't until 82 that

2386
01:20:41,110 --> 01:20:38,639
the f-117 the first

2387
01:20:42,790 --> 01:20:41,120
stealth fighter finally flew this is

2388
01:20:45,350 --> 01:20:42,800
skunk works these are people who got the

2389
01:20:47,110 --> 01:20:45,360
u2 in the air in 18 months

2390
01:20:48,950 --> 01:20:47,120
so what were they making between the two

2391
01:20:50,070 --> 01:20:48,960
the usual guess among people who

2392
01:20:52,229 --> 01:20:50,080
researched this

2393
01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:52,239
is that it was the tr3 black manta it's

2394
01:20:54,709 --> 01:20:53,440
another stealth plane it's a

2395
01:20:57,830 --> 01:20:54,719
reconnaissance plane

2396
01:21:00,229 --> 01:20:57,840
long-range recon and

2397
01:21:01,430 --> 01:21:00,239
this was an early mission they had they

2398
01:21:02,870 --> 01:21:01,440
had some kind of mechanical there's some

2399
01:21:04,310 --> 01:21:02,880
kind of problems over the north sea they

2400
01:21:04,950 --> 01:21:04,320
were perhaps going to be snooping on the

2401
01:21:07,990 --> 01:21:04,960
russians

2402
01:21:09,030 --> 01:21:08,000
the popular popular thing to do in 19 in

2403
01:21:10,229 --> 01:21:09,040
1980

2404
01:21:12,229 --> 01:21:10,239
so they have to make an emergency

2405
01:21:14,310 --> 01:21:12,239
landing they make it the emergency

2406
01:21:18,550 --> 01:21:14,320
landing in england because that's close

2407
01:21:19,430 --> 01:21:18,560
and at that point this entire stealth

2408
01:21:21,669 --> 01:21:19,440
thing was com

2409
01:21:23,270 --> 01:21:21,679
what was really the deepest secret we

2410
01:21:26,550 --> 01:21:23,280
had and it could have been

2411
01:21:28,310 --> 01:21:26,560
exposed by a single photograph because

2412
01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:28,320
all of the disinformation that was every

2413
01:21:31,430 --> 01:21:29,520
people were talking about stealth in

2414
01:21:34,070 --> 01:21:31,440
those days but all the disinformation

2415
01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:34,080
was was about like secret paints and

2416
01:21:36,790 --> 01:21:34,719
secret

2417
01:21:38,709 --> 01:21:36,800
substances made for the um you know of

2418
01:21:40,870 --> 01:21:38,719
the wings and the fuselage and so on and

2419
01:21:43,830 --> 01:21:40,880
that wasn't what was doing it as we know

2420
01:21:45,510 --> 01:21:43,840
it was the specially angled surfaces

2421
01:21:46,709 --> 01:21:45,520
that reflected radar waves away

2422
01:21:48,950 --> 01:21:46,719
one photograph would have blown that

2423
01:21:52,149 --> 01:21:48,960
secret sky high and so yeah

2424
01:21:54,149 --> 01:21:52,159
a black triangle crash landed and

2425
01:21:56,149 --> 01:21:54,159
the us military was and the british

2426
01:21:57,830 --> 01:21:56,159
military were desperately trying to keep

2427
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:57,840
that information from getting out

2428
01:22:01,910 --> 01:22:00,320
once it leaked out of course they had to

2429
01:22:04,310 --> 01:22:01,920
cover it up in flying saucer colors as

2430
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:04,320
quickly as possible

2431
01:22:08,390 --> 01:22:07,199
i i don't know i'm not i'm i don't think

2432
01:22:10,790 --> 01:22:08,400
i i buy this

2433
01:22:11,990 --> 01:22:10,800
this this part of it you know and you

2434
01:22:14,229 --> 01:22:12,000
know just

2435
01:22:15,510 --> 01:22:14,239
just talking to charles halt from one of

2436
01:22:17,910 --> 01:22:15,520
them the commander

2437
01:22:19,910 --> 01:22:17,920
uh uh he wasn't the commander of the

2438
01:22:22,629 --> 01:22:19,920
base at the time but um

2439
01:22:23,990 --> 01:22:22,639
but anyway uh assistant commander i

2440
01:22:27,270 --> 01:22:24,000
don't remember his title

2441
01:22:30,390 --> 01:22:27,280
in my book yeah yeah um but um

2442
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:30,400
here's the thing so he he has you know

2443
01:22:33,510 --> 01:22:31,120
i've been

2444
01:22:34,310 --> 01:22:33,520
face to face with him talking i i feel

2445
01:22:37,830 --> 01:22:34,320
like i have a

2446
01:22:40,070 --> 01:22:37,840
a pretty good uh observation if

2447
01:22:41,270 --> 01:22:40,080
someone's telling phony baloney or not

2448
01:22:43,750 --> 01:22:41,280
you know of course

2449
01:22:44,709 --> 01:22:43,760
um you know anyone can be fooled but he

2450
01:22:47,830 --> 01:22:44,719
tells a story

2451
01:22:50,229 --> 01:22:47,840
of uh this thing looking like an eyeball

2452
01:22:51,030 --> 01:22:50,239
and going through the woods and kind of

2453
01:22:53,350 --> 01:22:51,040
like you know

2454
01:22:54,070 --> 01:22:53,360
bouncing between the trees and then all

2455
01:22:58,070 --> 01:22:54,080
of a sudden

2456
01:22:59,910 --> 01:22:58,080
it bursts into several lights and uh

2457
01:23:01,669 --> 01:22:59,920
you know he said it doesn't mean it

2458
01:23:04,149 --> 01:23:01,679
doesn't make any sense at all

2459
01:23:05,270 --> 01:23:04,159
and you know i i have a friend in the

2460
01:23:08,390 --> 01:23:05,280
antiques world

2461
01:23:11,030 --> 01:23:08,400
who actually saw a ufo in college

2462
01:23:11,669 --> 01:23:11,040
that was box shaped came down through

2463
01:23:13,830 --> 01:23:11,679
the mall

2464
01:23:15,910 --> 01:23:13,840
at uh amherst college he was in the

2465
01:23:17,830 --> 01:23:15,920
tower and the thing looked like a box

2466
01:23:19,990 --> 01:23:17,840
and then it shot up

2467
01:23:21,669 --> 01:23:20,000
overhead toward the mountains and then

2468
01:23:23,430 --> 01:23:21,679
it burst into lights so there's two

2469
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:23,440
stories into five lights

2470
01:23:28,709 --> 01:23:26,400
two stories right there um that are very

2471
01:23:31,990 --> 01:23:28,719
you know similar in that type of way but

2472
01:23:35,030 --> 01:23:32,000
um i don't i don't know uh you know the

2473
01:23:36,390 --> 01:23:35,040
the audio of that it sounds pretty

2474
01:23:38,870 --> 01:23:36,400
fascinating it sounds

2475
01:23:41,910 --> 01:23:38,880
uh like something was really going on

2476
01:23:44,950 --> 01:23:41,920
did you listen to the audio as well

2477
01:23:46,950 --> 01:23:44,960
i have not listened to the audio yeah

2478
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:46,960
uh it's really worth really worth

2479
01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:48,719
checking out it doesn't

2480
01:23:52,950 --> 01:23:50,000
i don't i don't see how that could have

2481
01:23:54,550 --> 01:23:52,960
been faked or why it would have been

2482
01:23:56,629 --> 01:23:54,560
well again if you want people to believe

2483
01:23:58,870 --> 01:23:56,639
this that it's that it's aliens

2484
01:24:00,550 --> 01:23:58,880
and not stealth technology if and you

2485
01:24:04,070 --> 01:24:00,560
have the resources of the us government

2486
01:24:08,229 --> 01:24:06,629
all right so he wrote this memo about

2487
01:24:10,629 --> 01:24:08,239
the the whole situation

2488
01:24:11,830 --> 01:24:10,639
it was secret memo that he he sent to

2489
01:24:14,870 --> 01:24:11,840
headquarters

2490
01:24:16,790 --> 01:24:14,880
um you know that later was revealed

2491
01:24:19,030 --> 01:24:16,800
it had no intention of being revealed at

2492
01:24:21,510 --> 01:24:19,040
the time um you know

2493
01:24:22,229 --> 01:24:21,520
uh and and there's a number of cases

2494
01:24:23,830 --> 01:24:22,239
where

2495
01:24:25,750 --> 01:24:23,840
you know something eventually becomes

2496
01:24:27,910 --> 01:24:25,760
declassified it just seems like if this

2497
01:24:30,629 --> 01:24:27,920
was a disinformation effort

2498
01:24:31,110 --> 01:24:30,639
then immediately um that document would

2499
01:24:33,270 --> 01:24:31,120
get

2500
01:24:34,149 --> 01:24:33,280
out there live and not you know years

2501
01:24:37,750 --> 01:24:34,159
later when it's

2502
01:24:39,750 --> 01:24:37,760
declassified well it depends

2503
01:24:43,590 --> 01:24:39,760
it depends very much on i mean the thing

2504
01:24:45,270 --> 01:24:43,600
is we're sitting here outside

2505
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:45,280
the you know we're sitting here on the

2506
01:24:50,550 --> 01:24:47,760
outside trying to look in

2507
01:24:51,030 --> 01:24:50,560
and exactly what's going on exactly

2508
01:24:55,270 --> 01:24:51,040
who's

2509
01:24:57,270 --> 01:24:55,280
manufactured at what time

2510
01:24:59,430 --> 01:24:57,280
what purposes is being manufactured for

2511
01:25:01,110 --> 01:24:59,440
we can't know that

2512
01:25:03,590 --> 01:25:01,120
what i'm saying though is that a great

2513
01:25:04,470 --> 01:25:03,600
many cases uh that have been labeled the

2514
01:25:07,910 --> 01:25:04,480
ufos

2515
01:25:09,430 --> 01:25:07,920
show basically they make very immediate

2516
01:25:10,629 --> 01:25:09,440
sense if we look at them and say okay

2517
01:25:11,990 --> 01:25:10,639
what's the air force using this to

2518
01:25:15,030 --> 01:25:12,000
distract attention for something

2519
01:25:16,790 --> 01:25:15,040
from something and i argue the answer is

2520
01:25:18,229 --> 01:25:16,800
yes in a very in a very large number of

2521
01:25:20,950 --> 01:25:18,239
cases that's what's going on

2522
01:25:23,510 --> 01:25:20,960
that in not all the cases again there is

2523
01:25:27,350 --> 01:25:23,520
no one explanation for all ufo phenomena

2524
01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:27,360
but if we can if we can catch

2525
01:25:30,709 --> 01:25:29,520
to get a sense of how air force

2526
01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:30,719
intelligence is

2527
01:25:35,270 --> 01:25:33,760
manipulating their end of it and screen

2528
01:25:36,870 --> 01:25:35,280
that interference out

2529
01:25:39,270 --> 01:25:36,880
we have a much better chance of getting

2530
01:25:42,070 --> 01:25:39,280
toward what was actually going on

2531
01:25:42,950 --> 01:25:42,080
as a working rule as i'm noted if it

2532
01:25:44,790 --> 01:25:42,960
comes from

2533
01:25:46,629 --> 01:25:44,800
a president or former military officer

2534
01:25:48,550 --> 01:25:46,639
or somebody in this in you know somebody

2535
01:25:51,030 --> 01:25:48,560
with connections to spookhood

2536
01:25:52,310 --> 01:25:51,040
i discount it precisely because they're

2537
01:25:53,669 --> 01:25:52,320
you know you can't

2538
01:25:55,510 --> 01:25:53,679
know whether they're telling the truth

2539
01:25:57,910 --> 01:25:55,520
or not

2540
01:25:59,669 --> 01:25:57,920
and that may be a mistake on my part but

2541
01:26:00,790 --> 01:25:59,679
i don't i don't see any way around that

2542
01:26:03,189 --> 01:26:00,800
because the

2543
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:03,199
um they're especially air force

2544
01:26:07,270 --> 01:26:04,239
intelligence they have

2545
01:26:08,870 --> 01:26:07,280
floated so much nonsense i talked about

2546
01:26:10,149 --> 01:26:08,880
the menowitz case earlier

2547
01:26:12,629 --> 01:26:10,159
you know they've done that kind of thing

2548
01:26:16,149 --> 01:26:12,639
over and over again

2549
01:26:19,669 --> 01:26:16,159
and they're still doing it

2550
01:26:21,510 --> 01:26:19,679
and so you know you fool me one what's

2551
01:26:23,350 --> 01:26:21,520
the phrasing fool me once shame on you

2552
01:26:25,750 --> 01:26:23,360
fool me twice shame on me

2553
01:26:27,110 --> 01:26:25,760
so anything that comes from a military

2554
01:26:28,470 --> 01:26:27,120
source of government source like that

2555
01:26:29,990 --> 01:26:28,480
you've got to look at it skeptically

2556
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:30,000
you've got to say okay

2557
01:26:35,590 --> 01:26:33,760
what are they hiding something yes

2558
01:26:38,149 --> 01:26:35,600
what might they be hiding with this what

2559
01:26:39,110 --> 01:26:38,159
strategies might this be involved

2560
01:26:41,510 --> 01:26:39,120
this is actually another thing that

2561
01:26:43,350 --> 01:26:41,520
rockwell makes in his in his book

2562
01:26:46,390 --> 01:26:43,360
messengers of deception

2563
01:26:49,910 --> 01:26:46,400
that um you know just as

2564
01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:49,920
just as hitler's generals had 90 percent

2565
01:26:52,709 --> 01:26:51,360
of the information they needed to

2566
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:52,719
realize the allies were going to invade

2567
01:26:57,430 --> 01:26:55,600
normandy but they had the wrong 90

2568
01:26:59,189 --> 01:26:57,440
and valet goes on and points out it's

2569
01:27:01,350 --> 01:26:59,199
exactly the same thing we have 90

2570
01:27:02,470 --> 01:27:01,360
of the information about the ufos but

2571
01:27:03,750 --> 01:27:02,480
that would help us figure out what's

2572
01:27:05,030 --> 01:27:03,760
actually going on but it's the wrong

2573
01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:05,040
ninety percent

2574
01:27:08,229 --> 01:27:06,320
and we also have a lot of dis

2575
01:27:11,510 --> 01:27:08,239
information as he pointed out

2576
01:27:13,350 --> 01:27:11,520
a lot of stuff that is um that is very

2577
01:27:15,110 --> 01:27:13,360
dubious that is manufactured that is

2578
01:27:16,229 --> 01:27:15,120
meant to push the narrative this way or

2579
01:27:19,270 --> 01:27:16,239
that way

2580
01:27:21,510 --> 01:27:19,280
i mentioned the mj12 business um

2581
01:27:22,950 --> 01:27:21,520
and and that that the reality of that

2582
01:27:24,550 --> 01:27:22,960
has to be taken into account

2583
01:27:26,070 --> 01:27:24,560
otherwise we're just wandering in the

2584
01:27:28,709 --> 01:27:26,080
midst

2585
01:27:29,990 --> 01:27:28,719
so getting back to just the reynolds um

2586
01:27:33,110 --> 01:27:30,000
really quickly

2587
01:27:34,950 --> 01:27:33,120
um the question comes up the ufo was not

2588
01:27:36,149 --> 01:27:34,960
big enough for a pilot it was very small

2589
01:27:39,189 --> 01:27:36,159
according to

2590
01:27:43,270 --> 01:27:39,199
you know jen penniston and um i

2591
01:27:43,910 --> 01:27:43,280
uh it was very small for a pilot i

2592
01:27:45,990 --> 01:27:43,920
believe it was

2593
01:27:47,669 --> 01:27:46,000
like six by nine or something like that

2594
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:47,679
and and not too tall

2595
01:27:52,870 --> 01:27:50,960
and it took off again you know this this

2596
01:27:53,910 --> 01:27:52,880
are you saying that all these military

2597
01:27:58,149 --> 01:27:53,920
people are in on the

2598
01:28:01,189 --> 01:27:58,159
you know this big uh that's

2599
01:28:02,149 --> 01:28:01,199
very small fascinates me because the the

2600
01:28:03,830 --> 01:28:02,159
material that i

2601
01:28:05,590 --> 01:28:03,840
read and i read quite a few books on the

2602
01:28:08,070 --> 01:28:05,600
subject including the number by

2603
01:28:09,110 --> 01:28:08,080
by um you know i read jenny randall's

2604
01:28:12,310 --> 01:28:09,120
book for example

2605
01:28:13,750 --> 01:28:12,320
um the claim was that's the the

2606
01:28:15,830 --> 01:28:13,760
the claim they reported that it was

2607
01:28:19,430 --> 01:28:15,840
something rather large a large

2608
01:28:21,669 --> 01:28:19,440
triangular um aircraft spacecraft

2609
01:28:23,110 --> 01:28:21,679
well you know what okay then there's the

2610
01:28:26,310 --> 01:28:23,120
three indentations

2611
01:28:27,350 --> 01:28:26,320
talking multiple stories here and that

2612
01:28:28,550 --> 01:28:27,360
that adds to the fun

2613
01:28:30,149 --> 01:28:28,560
of course when they're they're

2614
01:28:30,709 --> 01:28:30,159
conflicting stories and circulation go

2615
01:28:33,030 --> 01:28:30,719
on

2616
01:28:34,790 --> 01:28:33,040
uh no i i would be interested to know

2617
01:28:36,070 --> 01:28:34,800
that other story i i'm not familiar with

2618
01:28:38,470 --> 01:28:36,080
that in particular

2619
01:28:39,270 --> 01:28:38,480
but you know they they want to pick up

2620
01:28:41,750 --> 01:28:39,280
you want to pick up

2621
01:28:43,110 --> 01:28:41,760
jenny randall's book um i think it's i

2622
01:28:44,550 --> 01:28:43,120
don't remember the title of it but

2623
01:28:46,950 --> 01:28:44,560
she's you know she's a well-known

2624
01:28:49,030 --> 01:28:46,960
british um ufo researcher and

2625
01:28:50,470 --> 01:28:49,040
she did she did good work on this one

2626
01:28:52,470 --> 01:28:50,480
and i believe if i'm remembering it

2627
01:28:55,350 --> 01:28:52,480
correctly it was quite a large thing and

2628
01:28:55,830 --> 01:28:55,360
um a whole bunch of people were taken

2629
01:28:58,870 --> 01:28:55,840
were

2630
01:28:59,990 --> 01:28:58,880
taken to see it in a way that later that

2631
01:29:00,709 --> 01:29:00,000
some of them later said this will

2632
01:29:04,790 --> 01:29:00,719
advance this

2633
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:04,800
seems all staged so well

2634
01:29:08,870 --> 01:29:07,040
yeah i haven't heard that angle at all

2635
01:29:11,030 --> 01:29:08,880
but i i will check it out

2636
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:11,040
and check out i think i think you'll

2637
01:29:15,110 --> 01:29:13,199
find it entertaining or interesting

2638
01:29:16,790 --> 01:29:15,120
and at the time you know charles hult

2639
01:29:18,550 --> 01:29:16,800
made these impressions

2640
01:29:20,790 --> 01:29:18,560
i mean he filled the impressions of the

2641
01:29:21,910 --> 01:29:20,800
triangle you know where the landing gear

2642
01:29:24,390 --> 01:29:21,920
came down

2643
01:29:25,590 --> 01:29:24,400
with plaster i actually saw he had a

2644
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:25,600
piece with him

2645
01:29:30,550 --> 01:29:29,040
uh you know to show and it did

2646
01:29:32,950 --> 01:29:30,560
support the theory that the thing was

2647
01:29:35,189 --> 01:29:32,960
very small at and it did come

2648
01:29:36,629 --> 01:29:35,199
supposedly come down between the trees

2649
01:29:38,629 --> 01:29:36,639
and branches broke and things like that

2650
01:29:40,310 --> 01:29:38,639
and they took pictures of the branches

2651
01:29:42,229 --> 01:29:40,320
broken branches in the upper part of the

2652
01:29:45,430 --> 01:29:42,239
tree and

2653
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:45,440
they it just it seems like an awful lot

2654
01:29:51,030 --> 01:29:46,560
of work

2655
01:29:56,070 --> 01:29:54,470
no again the my my my argument for

2656
01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:56,080
rental swim is that it's not a hoax but

2657
01:29:59,430 --> 01:29:57,840
it was an actual stealth craft

2658
01:30:01,350 --> 01:29:59,440
and that's why they they tried to

2659
01:30:02,709 --> 01:30:01,360
blanket it so completely i wonder

2660
01:30:04,830 --> 01:30:02,719
you know that's that's interesting if

2661
01:30:08,149 --> 01:30:04,840
there may have been because there were

2662
01:30:11,189 --> 01:30:08,159
proposals in the in the 60s and 70s

2663
01:30:12,870 --> 01:30:11,199
to do what we now call drones pilotless

2664
01:30:14,070 --> 01:30:12,880
planes that were controlled by another

2665
01:30:16,709 --> 01:30:14,080
plane

2666
01:30:18,470 --> 01:30:16,719
um uh can you can you name some books

2667
01:30:20,390 --> 01:30:18,480
that cover the smug that discuss the

2668
01:30:23,590 --> 01:30:20,400
small thing that was found

2669
01:30:25,030 --> 01:30:23,600
no okay i'll dig into it

2670
01:30:27,110 --> 01:30:25,040
um because that sounds interesting and i

2671
01:30:30,149 --> 01:30:27,120
think it just comparing that

2672
01:30:31,669 --> 01:30:30,159
to what we know of um aerospace

2673
01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:31,679
technology at that time

2674
01:30:39,750 --> 01:30:35,760
might reveal a great deal

2675
01:30:43,030 --> 01:30:39,760
okay all right

2676
01:30:45,030 --> 01:30:43,040
i guess i guess i'll move on also

2677
01:30:47,430 --> 01:30:45,040
to another another question just to ask

2678
01:30:49,830 --> 01:30:47,440
you if you've ever looked into

2679
01:30:50,870 --> 01:30:49,840
incidents like the ariel school incident

2680
01:30:52,470 --> 01:30:50,880
in west all

2681
01:30:54,470 --> 01:30:52,480
are you familiar with either one of

2682
01:30:55,910 --> 01:30:54,480
those that's not those those aren't

2683
01:30:57,830 --> 01:30:55,920
ringing bells right now

2684
01:31:00,470 --> 01:30:57,840
okay all right this was a school

2685
01:31:04,390 --> 01:31:00,480
children in a remote area and

2686
01:31:05,030 --> 01:31:04,400
south africa that um that you know 62 of

2687
01:31:07,110 --> 01:31:05,040
them

2688
01:31:08,149 --> 01:31:07,120
actually um talked about it were

2689
01:31:11,270 --> 01:31:08,159
interviewed by

2690
01:31:11,750 --> 01:31:11,280
a child psychologist john mack uh who

2691
01:31:15,510 --> 01:31:11,760
came in

2692
01:31:18,390 --> 01:31:15,520
that and uh

2693
01:31:19,189 --> 01:31:18,400
it's a very very fascinating case uh we

2694
01:31:22,790 --> 01:31:19,199
were

2695
01:31:24,709 --> 01:31:22,800
a place where no one was uh actually uh

2696
01:31:26,950 --> 01:31:24,719
the witness that i actually spoke with

2697
01:31:29,669 --> 01:31:26,960
said you know she never even heard of

2698
01:31:30,629 --> 01:31:29,679
the topic ufo she had no idea what it

2699
01:31:33,830 --> 01:31:30,639
was

2700
01:31:35,830 --> 01:31:33,840
strange

2701
01:31:38,470 --> 01:31:35,840
and there was actually beings uh

2702
01:31:42,149 --> 01:31:38,480
involved in that too and not and this is

2703
01:31:43,030 --> 01:31:42,159
by 62 plus kids plus one teacher as well

2704
01:31:46,790 --> 01:31:43,040
as

2705
01:31:48,550 --> 01:31:46,800
some uh unreported kindergarten uh

2706
01:31:52,149 --> 01:31:48,560
kids that saw it as well but were not

2707
01:31:54,790 --> 01:31:52,159
able to be interviewed at the time

2708
01:31:56,149 --> 01:31:54,800
um so there's that then and the thing i

2709
01:31:58,229 --> 01:31:56,159
want to cycle back to is that

2710
01:31:59,590 --> 01:31:58,239
unquestionably weird things are being

2711
01:32:02,870 --> 01:31:59,600
seen

2712
01:32:04,709 --> 01:32:02,880
the question is

2713
01:32:06,629 --> 01:32:04,719
what you know are they all the same

2714
01:32:09,189 --> 01:32:06,639
thing i'm arguing that they're not

2715
01:32:11,270 --> 01:32:09,199
are some of them being created for

2716
01:32:14,870 --> 01:32:11,280
various purposes of deception or

2717
01:32:15,750 --> 01:32:14,880
um basically are are being interpreted

2718
01:32:17,750 --> 01:32:15,760
in various ways

2719
01:32:18,950 --> 01:32:17,760
manipulated by the us air force i would

2720
01:32:20,390 --> 01:32:18,960
argue that's the case

2721
01:32:22,790 --> 01:32:20,400
does that explain every setting of

2722
01:32:23,189 --> 01:32:22,800
course not and i never i've specifically

2723
01:32:26,550 --> 01:32:23,199
said

2724
01:32:28,149 --> 01:32:26,560
it's not every setting but you know

2725
01:32:30,790 --> 01:32:28,159
one of the one of the challenges here of

2726
01:32:31,270 --> 01:32:30,800
course is that to really under to really

2727
01:32:34,070 --> 01:32:31,280
study

2728
01:32:35,510 --> 01:32:34,080
every single sighting in the detail that

2729
01:32:38,229 --> 01:32:35,520
would be necessary

2730
01:32:38,550 --> 01:32:38,239
um that's something that would take you

2731
01:32:41,189 --> 01:32:38,560
know

2732
01:32:42,310 --> 01:32:41,199
no no one no researcher can do that no

2733
01:32:44,950 --> 01:32:42,320
individual researcher

2734
01:32:47,430 --> 01:32:44,960
um we could have if there was actually

2735
01:32:47,990 --> 01:32:47,440
an independent agency for ufo research

2736
01:32:50,310 --> 01:32:48,000
with

2737
01:32:52,070 --> 01:32:50,320
you know a billion dollar year budget

2738
01:32:54,950 --> 01:32:52,080
and hundreds of field investigators

2739
01:32:56,470 --> 01:32:54,960
even then it would be very very hard to

2740
01:32:57,750 --> 01:32:56,480
keep track of everything and do all the

2741
01:32:59,430 --> 01:32:57,760
adequate research so

2742
01:33:01,350 --> 01:32:59,440
all of us are basically trying to work

2743
01:33:04,229 --> 01:33:01,360
with a very limited data set

2744
01:33:06,550 --> 01:33:04,239
and with google's impressions and we do

2745
01:33:09,350 --> 01:33:06,560
our best

2746
01:33:10,870 --> 01:33:09,360
yes yes i agree on that um all right

2747
01:33:12,790 --> 01:33:10,880
well

2748
01:33:14,229 --> 01:33:12,800
do you think so if the pentagon actually

2749
01:33:17,189 --> 01:33:14,239
admits that it has been

2750
01:33:17,750 --> 01:33:17,199
looking into you know uaps as they call

2751
01:33:19,830 --> 01:33:17,760
them

2752
01:33:20,950 --> 01:33:19,840
uh whatever they are you know maybe

2753
01:33:23,669 --> 01:33:20,960
they're because

2754
01:33:24,550 --> 01:33:23,679
it's possible that it's a foreign threat

2755
01:33:27,110 --> 01:33:24,560
or

2756
01:33:29,350 --> 01:33:27,120
something else unexplained and i don't

2757
01:33:32,950 --> 01:33:29,360
know if you have followed any of that

2758
01:33:33,510 --> 01:33:32,960
but um yeah so uh i did want to get into

2759
01:33:36,229 --> 01:33:33,520
also

2760
01:33:37,270 --> 01:33:36,239
the nimitz case again it's military um

2761
01:33:39,430 --> 01:33:37,280
you may have

2762
01:33:41,110 --> 01:33:39,440
you know thoughts about that separately

2763
01:33:44,310 --> 01:33:41,120
um i talked to

2764
01:33:47,189 --> 01:33:44,320
uh kevin day actually uh

2765
01:33:47,910 --> 01:33:47,199
before he even came forward and actually

2766
01:33:50,390 --> 01:33:47,920
he's uh

2767
01:33:51,030 --> 01:33:50,400
you know he's he's come out on uh you

2768
01:33:57,669 --> 01:33:51,040
know

2769
01:34:00,229 --> 01:33:57,679
tv shows unex uh unexplained

2770
01:34:00,870 --> 01:34:00,239
unidentified and all that so what do you

2771
01:34:04,149 --> 01:34:00,880
think

2772
01:34:05,189 --> 01:34:04,159
of these tic tacs that defied all the

2773
01:34:07,910 --> 01:34:05,199
tic tac shaped

2774
01:34:09,030 --> 01:34:07,920
you know ufos defied all of physics that

2775
01:34:11,270 --> 01:34:09,040
we know about as

2776
01:34:13,910 --> 01:34:11,280
far as you know the start and stops and

2777
01:34:16,310 --> 01:34:13,920
all the radar data they had on it and uh

2778
01:34:18,310 --> 01:34:16,320
the eyewitnesses as well okay where does

2779
01:34:20,629 --> 01:34:18,320
all this come into play

2780
01:34:21,590 --> 01:34:20,639
good question um the first point is

2781
01:34:24,149 --> 01:34:21,600
again

2782
01:34:24,870 --> 01:34:24,159
um now remind me of the date when that

2783
01:34:28,790 --> 01:34:24,880
happened

2784
01:34:30,229 --> 01:34:28,800
uh 2004 2004.

2785
01:34:32,390 --> 01:34:30,239
so right about the beginning of the

2786
01:34:32,790 --> 01:34:32,400
latest run when the navy started going

2787
01:34:35,510 --> 01:34:32,800
oh

2788
01:34:36,870 --> 01:34:35,520
work and my assumption when all of us

2789
01:34:38,709 --> 01:34:36,880
started coming out with oh the navy's

2790
01:34:42,149 --> 01:34:38,719
testing something new

2791
01:34:44,070 --> 01:34:42,159
and i could be wrong but watching the

2792
01:34:45,270 --> 01:34:44,080
pentagon go through exactly the same

2793
01:34:47,189 --> 01:34:45,280
maneuvers they went through in the

2794
01:34:49,910 --> 01:34:47,199
creation of project blue book

2795
01:34:51,109 --> 01:34:49,920
um and making the same yeah well there

2796
01:34:54,470 --> 01:34:51,119
might be something up there

2797
01:34:56,470 --> 01:34:54,480
this kind of thing it's so reminiscent

2798
01:34:58,149 --> 01:34:56,480
of what was going on in the midnight mid

2799
01:35:01,910 --> 01:34:58,159
mid to late 1950s

2800
01:35:04,790 --> 01:35:01,920
and my assumption again i could be wrong

2801
01:35:05,430 --> 01:35:04,800
my assumption is that um in particular

2802
01:35:08,470 --> 01:35:05,440
now that

2803
01:35:10,790 --> 01:35:08,480
our um aircraft carrier fleet is

2804
01:35:12,470 --> 01:35:10,800
is rapidly approaching obsolescence due

2805
01:35:13,590 --> 01:35:12,480
to uh ship killing missiles hypersonic

2806
01:35:15,590 --> 01:35:13,600
ship killing missiles

2807
01:35:16,950 --> 01:35:15,600
that the navy's testing something and

2808
01:35:18,709 --> 01:35:16,960
that they're doing a whole series of

2809
01:35:19,430 --> 01:35:18,719
secret tests they are trying to keep it

2810
01:35:21,030 --> 01:35:19,440
out of

2811
01:35:23,430 --> 01:35:21,040
the eyes of everyone and so they are

2812
01:35:25,510 --> 01:35:23,440
manufacturing and circulating stories

2813
01:35:28,070 --> 01:35:25,520
of you this ufo that you offer the other

2814
01:35:29,910 --> 01:35:28,080
ufo as protected camouflaged just the

2815
01:35:32,149 --> 01:35:29,920
same way that the air force did

2816
01:35:33,189 --> 01:35:32,159
now again i could be wrong that's my

2817
01:35:35,910 --> 01:35:33,199
take on it

2818
01:35:37,270 --> 01:35:35,920
and watching the pentagon pile into the

2819
01:35:40,629 --> 01:35:37,280
whole uap thing

2820
01:35:42,310 --> 01:35:40,639
um again i think it's a smoke screen

2821
01:35:44,229 --> 01:35:42,320
i think it's i think we're looking at

2822
01:35:44,950 --> 01:35:44,239
another equivalent of those inflatable

2823
01:35:47,510 --> 01:35:44,960
tanks

2824
01:35:49,910 --> 01:35:47,520
and non-existent armies that we used to

2825
01:35:54,149 --> 01:35:49,920
fake out the nazis in 1944.

2826
01:35:56,149 --> 01:35:54,159
and um will i you know will i

2827
01:35:57,910 --> 01:35:56,159
be able to say that for sure not until

2828
01:36:00,390 --> 01:35:57,920
whatever the navy you know

2829
01:36:02,149 --> 01:36:00,400
my working guess is in about ten years

2830
01:36:03,270 --> 01:36:02,159
maybe five but probably closer to ten

2831
01:36:05,270 --> 01:36:03,280
given the way it goes

2832
01:36:06,950 --> 01:36:05,280
we'll find out that the navy does have

2833
01:36:08,390 --> 01:36:06,960
this remarkable new

2834
01:36:10,149 --> 01:36:08,400
technology that they haven't been

2835
01:36:12,229 --> 01:36:10,159
talking about and

2836
01:36:13,590 --> 01:36:12,239
it will resemble what's being seen in

2837
01:36:15,030 --> 01:36:13,600
roughly the same way that the stealth

2838
01:36:17,910 --> 01:36:15,040
plans resemble those

2839
01:36:19,189 --> 01:36:17,920
slow-moving black triangles you know

2840
01:36:20,550 --> 01:36:19,199
we'll see

2841
01:36:21,990 --> 01:36:20,560
i quite understand there are a lot of

2842
01:36:23,189 --> 01:36:22,000
people who think otherwise to think that

2843
01:36:24,310 --> 01:36:23,199
it's something that violet you know

2844
01:36:25,910 --> 01:36:24,320
there's some um

2845
01:36:27,750 --> 01:36:25,920
something violating the laws of physics

2846
01:36:28,390 --> 01:36:27,760
some some you know alien technology or

2847
01:36:32,790 --> 01:36:28,400
something

2848
01:36:37,189 --> 01:36:35,750
now the government recently over this uh

2849
01:36:40,790 --> 01:36:37,199
last few months

2850
01:36:41,910 --> 01:36:40,800
has uh come out and said that they agree

2851
01:36:43,910 --> 01:36:41,920
that the

2852
01:36:45,109 --> 01:36:43,920
three videos that have been released

2853
01:36:48,870 --> 01:36:45,119
were you know

2854
01:36:52,149 --> 01:36:48,880
unidentified uh objects and

2855
01:36:55,270 --> 01:36:52,159
um and you know they they oops

2856
01:36:58,390 --> 01:36:55,280
i'm sorry uh i put up the wrong

2857
01:37:00,149 --> 01:36:58,400
here's the one um but there was the the

2858
01:37:01,669 --> 01:37:00,159
shapes were there was the gimbal known

2859
01:37:03,830 --> 01:37:01,679
as the gimbal where this

2860
01:37:05,510 --> 01:37:03,840
um this disc with a little point on the

2861
01:37:07,910 --> 01:37:05,520
top it appears to have a point

2862
01:37:09,910 --> 01:37:07,920
it kind of goes a long level and then

2863
01:37:11,830 --> 01:37:09,920
all of a sudden it goes up on its side

2864
01:37:13,510 --> 01:37:11,840
and it's moving along at 100 some odd

2865
01:37:14,870 --> 01:37:13,520
knots and uh

2866
01:37:16,629 --> 01:37:14,880
you know being filmed with the gun

2867
01:37:19,910 --> 01:37:16,639
camera and all that um

2868
01:37:20,709 --> 01:37:19,920
and then the go fast which was a lock-on

2869
01:37:23,669 --> 01:37:20,719
and

2870
01:37:25,109 --> 01:37:23,679
uh then of course the tic tac that came

2871
01:37:28,310 --> 01:37:25,119
off of that whole event

2872
01:37:29,830 --> 01:37:28,320
off the coast of of california um

2873
01:37:31,430 --> 01:37:29,840
and what do you what do you say to all

2874
01:37:33,430 --> 01:37:31,440
those different objects and all that you

2875
01:37:35,750 --> 01:37:33,440
think they're all

2876
01:37:37,669 --> 01:37:35,760
a military i mean you think this is the

2877
01:37:39,510 --> 01:37:37,679
total answer for this

2878
01:37:41,030 --> 01:37:39,520
no i think i think that i think that

2879
01:37:45,750 --> 01:37:41,040
what we that um

2880
01:37:48,870 --> 01:37:47,590
that although i mean this is the us

2881
01:37:51,590 --> 01:37:48,880
government can they

2882
01:37:52,470 --> 01:37:51,600
pay for the cons the production of a

2883
01:37:54,629 --> 01:37:52,480
film

2884
01:37:55,510 --> 01:37:54,639
and then leak it and say wow this must

2885
01:37:56,709 --> 01:37:55,520
be unedited

2886
01:37:58,390 --> 01:37:56,719
if they're trying to cover up something

2887
01:38:00,229 --> 01:37:58,400
that doesn't look like any of those of

2888
01:38:02,310 --> 01:38:00,239
course they can

2889
01:38:03,430 --> 01:38:02,320
so again they're anything that comes

2890
01:38:05,830 --> 01:38:03,440
from the government

2891
01:38:06,550 --> 01:38:05,840
you have to approach with skepticism

2892
01:38:07,750 --> 01:38:06,560
because again

2893
01:38:08,870 --> 01:38:07,760
they're not telling you what they know

2894
01:38:13,030 --> 01:38:08,880
they're telling you what they want you

2895
01:38:18,070 --> 01:38:16,229
well um that's my take again yeah i'm

2896
01:38:20,149 --> 01:38:18,080
i'm not saying that i'm that omniscient

2897
01:38:20,550 --> 01:38:20,159
here or that i'm absolutely true and you

2898
01:38:22,470 --> 01:38:20,560
know

2899
01:38:23,990 --> 01:38:22,480
you better you better believe it this is

2900
01:38:25,910 --> 01:38:24,000
my take and

2901
01:38:27,669 --> 01:38:25,920
it's it's worked out that way often

2902
01:38:34,390 --> 01:38:27,679
enough

2903
01:38:35,590 --> 01:38:34,400
the remarkable thing in the sky that so

2904
01:38:37,910 --> 01:38:35,600
and so is pointing to

2905
01:38:39,350 --> 01:38:37,920
turns out 10 or 15 years down the road

2906
01:38:41,030 --> 01:38:39,360
to have been

2907
01:38:42,709 --> 01:38:41,040
another secret test you know the mantel

2908
01:38:45,830 --> 01:38:42,719
case that used to be quite famous

2909
01:38:47,830 --> 01:38:45,840
uh 1948 um every

2910
01:38:49,510 --> 01:38:47,840
air national guard pilot went to chasing

2911
01:38:52,550 --> 01:38:49,520
a cone-shaped ufo

2912
01:38:53,830 --> 01:38:52,560
and it he ran too high uh lost a loss

2913
01:38:56,470 --> 01:38:53,840
consciousness to do lack of

2914
01:38:58,310 --> 01:38:56,480
crap and yeah and it turned out that

2915
01:39:00,310 --> 01:38:58,320
what he was chasing was

2916
01:39:01,750 --> 01:39:00,320
um a skyhook balloon one of them again

2917
01:39:04,149 --> 01:39:01,760
one of those balloon tests

2918
01:39:06,149 --> 01:39:04,159
but for like what was it six years after

2919
01:39:08,149 --> 01:39:06,159
um after the date of that

2920
01:39:09,350 --> 01:39:08,159
of that crash the air force insisted at

2921
01:39:11,750 --> 01:39:09,360
the top of their lungs that know he'd

2922
01:39:13,430 --> 01:39:11,760
been chasing the planet venus

2923
01:39:14,950 --> 01:39:13,440
they know perfectly well that he hadn't

2924
01:39:15,590 --> 01:39:14,960
been chasing the planet venus they knew

2925
01:39:17,910 --> 01:39:15,600
that he was

2926
01:39:19,270 --> 01:39:17,920
chasing a secret balloon test but they

2927
01:39:22,070 --> 01:39:19,280
lied through their teeth

2928
01:39:23,669 --> 01:39:22,080
because those were the tests were secret

2929
01:39:25,350 --> 01:39:23,679
that was actually the incident that

2930
01:39:26,229 --> 01:39:25,360
really gave me a clue to the whole thing

2931
01:39:28,149 --> 01:39:26,239
watching

2932
01:39:29,910 --> 01:39:28,159
well that and then all of the

2933
01:39:30,790 --> 01:39:29,920
revelations about how many project blue

2934
01:39:34,310 --> 01:39:30,800
book sightings

2935
01:39:35,910 --> 01:39:34,320
had actually been u2 nsr 71 sightings um

2936
01:39:38,950 --> 01:39:35,920
when that when the information about

2937
01:39:41,430 --> 01:39:38,960
about the sr-71 and u2 program

2938
01:39:42,950 --> 01:39:41,440
programs were declassified by the cia it

2939
01:39:46,149 --> 01:39:42,960
turned out that approximately

2940
01:39:48,950 --> 01:39:46,159
half of the quote unknowns that

2941
01:39:50,790 --> 01:39:48,960
blue book had recorded not only were

2942
01:39:53,510 --> 01:39:50,800
they

2943
01:39:54,229 --> 01:39:53,520
sr 71 or u2 flights but the blue book

2944
01:39:56,390 --> 01:39:54,239
officers

2945
01:39:58,229 --> 01:39:56,400
knew that they'd get on the phone to

2946
01:39:59,270 --> 01:39:58,239
likely talk to the cia saying hi were

2947
01:40:00,229 --> 01:39:59,280
you sent out were you flying something

2948
01:40:03,270 --> 01:40:00,239
yeah okay mark that

2949
01:40:04,550 --> 01:40:03,280
was done as an unknown so that's

2950
01:40:07,350 --> 01:40:04,560
that's the kind of thing we're up

2951
01:40:09,669 --> 01:40:07,360
against here a situation where

2952
01:40:10,790 --> 01:40:09,679
we can't where the u.s government is

2953
01:40:13,910 --> 01:40:10,800
systematically

2954
01:40:16,390 --> 01:40:13,920
lying about what people are seeing

2955
01:40:18,070 --> 01:40:16,400
in order to cover up in order to provide

2956
01:40:19,109 --> 01:40:18,080
count protective camouflage for secret

2957
01:40:21,109 --> 01:40:19,119
programs

2958
01:40:23,109 --> 01:40:21,119
it's you know it's documented that

2959
01:40:24,709 --> 01:40:23,119
they've done that it's documented over

2960
01:40:25,669 --> 01:40:24,719
and over again that they did exactly

2961
01:40:28,709 --> 01:40:25,679
that

2962
01:40:29,910 --> 01:40:28,719
and so we need to look at any time

2963
01:40:32,229 --> 01:40:29,920
something comes out of the government

2964
01:40:33,590 --> 01:40:32,239
saying and look at the possibility or i

2965
01:40:37,430 --> 01:40:33,600
would say the probability

2966
01:40:39,109 --> 01:40:37,440
that it's yet more of the same thing

2967
01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:39,119
are you are you familiar with the

2968
01:40:47,750 --> 01:40:41,920
belgium wave

2969
01:40:50,790 --> 01:40:47,760
um dates i think it was the 1990s

2970
01:40:52,390 --> 01:40:50,800
that that was uh i forget how many

2971
01:40:54,709 --> 01:40:52,400
i think it was something like a thousand

2972
01:40:56,070 --> 01:40:54,719
sightings i i may be way off on that

2973
01:40:58,310 --> 01:40:56,080
and um i just wondered if you were

2974
01:41:01,990 --> 01:40:58,320
familiar with that in particular

2975
01:41:03,350 --> 01:41:02,000
1990s and um i i recall reading

2976
01:41:05,669 --> 01:41:03,360
something about it but i'm not recalling

2977
01:41:09,750 --> 01:41:05,679
the details what were people seeing

2978
01:41:14,149 --> 01:41:12,790
lots of them and uh police officers

2979
01:41:17,030 --> 01:41:14,159
round triangle or flying up high

2980
01:41:20,550 --> 01:41:17,040
triangle uh they actually saw

2981
01:41:22,070 --> 01:41:20,560
one over a field uh that was uh

2982
01:41:23,830 --> 01:41:22,080
that was the police officer in

2983
01:41:27,030 --> 01:41:23,840
particular was out with his wife

2984
01:41:27,669 --> 01:41:27,040
and that was actually in 1989 to 1990s

2985
01:41:30,709 --> 01:41:27,679
when

2986
01:41:32,790 --> 01:41:30,719
just

2987
01:41:33,750 --> 01:41:32,800
lots and lots and lots of people seeing

2988
01:41:36,550 --> 01:41:33,760
this and one

2989
01:41:37,270 --> 01:41:36,560
picture that is suspect you know only

2990
01:41:40,550 --> 01:41:37,280
one picture

2991
01:41:42,629 --> 01:41:40,560
was taken and uh that was in june of

2992
01:41:45,030 --> 01:41:42,639
1990

2993
01:41:46,470 --> 01:41:45,040
yeah where were all the cameras i mean

2994
01:41:47,910 --> 01:41:46,480
1990

2995
01:41:50,629 --> 01:41:47,920
cell phone cameras weren't really a

2996
01:41:53,669 --> 01:41:50,639
thing that yes as i recall

2997
01:41:55,030 --> 01:41:53,679
people had cameras and you'd think

2998
01:41:56,870 --> 01:41:55,040
especially if these things are being

2999
01:41:58,629 --> 01:41:56,880
popping up all over the place you know

3000
01:41:59,990 --> 01:41:58,639
some lady would would stick an enzymatic

3001
01:42:01,750 --> 01:42:00,000
into her purse just to make sure

3002
01:42:03,109 --> 01:42:01,760
they have it but yeah one of the one of

3003
01:42:05,510 --> 01:42:03,119
the really odd things

3004
01:42:07,590 --> 01:42:05,520
is that especially nowadays with a

3005
01:42:08,149 --> 01:42:07,600
fantastic number of people who are going

3006
01:42:10,550 --> 01:42:08,159
around

3007
01:42:11,990 --> 01:42:10,560
with cell phones with decent cameras

3008
01:42:14,149 --> 01:42:12,000
yeah i got to tell you when i

3009
01:42:15,510 --> 01:42:14,159
i will tell you this and and i don't

3010
01:42:17,270 --> 01:42:15,520
know if you have ever had a sighting of

3011
01:42:20,470 --> 01:42:17,280
course that's usually a question i asked

3012
01:42:22,149 --> 01:42:20,480
but um when i fair question and i have

3013
01:42:25,430 --> 01:42:22,159
to say the answer is no i have not

3014
01:42:27,990 --> 01:42:25,440
okay when i had my ufo sighting

3015
01:42:29,189 --> 01:42:28,000
i was so enthralled with what the heck

3016
01:42:30,950 --> 01:42:29,199
am i looking at

3017
01:42:32,149 --> 01:42:30,960
i if i had a camera beside me i don't

3018
01:42:32,550 --> 01:42:32,159
know if i would have thought to pick it

3019
01:42:33,990 --> 01:42:32,560
up

3020
01:42:35,590 --> 01:42:34,000
but i understand what you're saying if

3021
01:42:37,109 --> 01:42:35,600
people there's a flap

3022
01:42:39,109 --> 01:42:37,119
uh everyone's talking about seeing

3023
01:42:40,390 --> 01:42:39,119
something you know you're almost out

3024
01:42:41,430 --> 01:42:40,400
there looking for something i can

3025
01:42:43,590 --> 01:42:41,440
understand

3026
01:42:45,430 --> 01:42:43,600
you know your point where someone seemed

3027
01:42:47,350 --> 01:42:45,440
to have the camera

3028
01:42:49,109 --> 01:42:47,360
yeah exactly some you think somebody i

3029
01:42:50,390 --> 01:42:49,119
mean a situation like yours

3030
01:42:52,229 --> 01:42:50,400
you're alone you're chilling out in a

3031
01:42:54,310 --> 01:42:52,239
hot tub and then there's this

3032
01:42:55,590 --> 01:42:54,320
this impossible thing hovering over you

3033
01:42:57,669 --> 01:42:55,600
yeah you're just gonna be staring at

3034
01:43:01,270 --> 01:42:57,679
this thing going what's a bleep

3035
01:43:04,629 --> 01:43:01,280
yeah but i think i said that too yeah

3036
01:43:05,270 --> 01:43:04,639
yeah how about you do that no the thing

3037
01:43:07,270 --> 01:43:05,280
is i

3038
01:43:08,310 --> 01:43:07,280
i have friends who've had sightings um a

3039
01:43:10,149 --> 01:43:08,320
good friend of mine

3040
01:43:11,830 --> 01:43:10,159
had a had a classic black triangle

3041
01:43:13,910 --> 01:43:11,840
sighting um

3042
01:43:14,950 --> 01:43:13,920
and and i believe he saw something i do

3043
01:43:17,270 --> 01:43:14,960
not think he was

3044
01:43:18,950 --> 01:43:17,280
you know i i believe that he saw it and

3045
01:43:21,270 --> 01:43:18,960
he described it as best he could

3046
01:43:23,189 --> 01:43:21,280
and that's that's the thing you know the

3047
01:43:26,709 --> 01:43:23,199
the thing the skeptics always miss

3048
01:43:28,310 --> 01:43:26,719
that the people are actually seeing

3049
01:43:28,870 --> 01:43:28,320
strange things in the sky and we need to

3050
01:43:31,030 --> 01:43:28,880
start

3051
01:43:32,310 --> 01:43:31,040
by accepting that and then we go on to

3052
01:43:34,709 --> 01:43:32,320
say okay

3053
01:43:35,669 --> 01:43:34,719
now are they all the same thing clearly

3054
01:43:38,229 --> 01:43:35,679
not

3055
01:43:40,390 --> 01:43:38,239
what categories they fall into could

3056
01:43:42,310 --> 01:43:40,400
they be from many different sources

3057
01:43:44,470 --> 01:43:42,320
what influence does popular culture have

3058
01:43:47,030 --> 01:43:44,480
on our interpretation of

3059
01:43:49,030 --> 01:43:47,040
these strange things that we're seeing

3060
01:43:50,709 --> 01:43:49,040
what about the interface between

3061
01:43:52,870 --> 01:43:50,719
the university jung talked about between

3062
01:43:55,830 --> 01:43:52,880
the inner and the outer worlds where

3063
01:43:57,910 --> 01:43:55,840
you know things are seen in the sky

3064
01:44:00,310 --> 01:43:57,920
because they feel a psychological need

3065
01:44:01,189 --> 01:44:00,320
but they're actually being seen you know

3066
01:44:02,550 --> 01:44:01,199
we're not

3067
01:44:04,830 --> 01:44:02,560
again patrick harper's discussion

3068
01:44:07,990 --> 01:44:04,840
diamondic reality is great there

3069
01:44:10,390 --> 01:44:08,000
um we're dealing with a very

3070
01:44:12,390 --> 01:44:10,400
very strange phenomenon or a very very

3071
01:44:14,629 --> 01:44:12,400
strange set of phenomena

3072
01:44:16,629 --> 01:44:14,639
um as i've already indicated i tend to

3073
01:44:17,910 --> 01:44:16,639
think that um

3074
01:44:19,590 --> 01:44:17,920
john keele's notion of the super

3075
01:44:20,550 --> 01:44:19,600
spectrum of ultra terrestrials and

3076
01:44:22,629 --> 01:44:20,560
extraterrestrials

3077
01:44:23,750 --> 01:44:22,639
has a law going for it actually explains

3078
01:44:27,109 --> 01:44:23,760
much more

3079
01:44:29,430 --> 01:44:27,119
than many of the other explanations um

3080
01:44:30,550 --> 01:44:29,440
but there again there are these other

3081
01:44:32,950 --> 01:44:30,560
things going on that

3082
01:44:34,550 --> 01:44:32,960
clearly relate to something like say

3083
01:44:37,590 --> 01:44:34,560
military intelligence

3084
01:44:40,790 --> 01:44:37,600
so it's it you know it's crucial

3085
01:44:43,350 --> 01:44:40,800
not to not to oversimplify

3086
01:44:43,990 --> 01:44:43,360
not to try to go for the simple answer

3087
01:44:47,430 --> 01:44:44,000
and

3088
01:44:50,149 --> 01:44:47,440
for something that obviously has many

3089
01:44:53,669 --> 01:44:50,159
many digital causes

3090
01:44:58,149 --> 01:44:53,679
right um are you familiar with the j8l

3091
01:45:00,870 --> 01:44:58,159
the japanese airlines flight 1628 back

3092
01:45:02,550 --> 01:45:00,880
in 1986

3093
01:45:05,270 --> 01:45:02,560
um i've read about it was a long time

3094
01:45:06,470 --> 01:45:05,280
ago yeah well that's a fascinating case

3095
01:45:10,229 --> 01:45:06,480
to me you know this

3096
01:45:10,790 --> 01:45:10,239
walnut shaped um you know 300 some odd a

3097
01:45:13,350 --> 01:45:10,800
foot or

3098
01:45:14,229 --> 01:45:13,360
somewhere around there between 100 plus

3099
01:45:17,189 --> 01:45:14,239
feet

3100
01:45:18,070 --> 01:45:17,199
long you know following seen on radar uh

3101
01:45:22,070 --> 01:45:18,080
this is a

3102
01:45:25,109 --> 01:45:22,080
uh a pilot that is flying

3103
01:45:27,750 --> 01:45:25,119
um cargo you know basically and

3104
01:45:29,270 --> 01:45:27,760
you know he he uh reports it trying to

3105
01:45:31,669 --> 01:45:29,280
figure out what's happening

3106
01:45:32,870 --> 01:45:31,679
there's all kinds of i think there's two

3107
01:45:35,270 --> 01:45:32,880
different radar

3108
01:45:36,550 --> 01:45:35,280
hits on this thing and you know he ends

3109
01:45:38,470 --> 01:45:36,560
up getting a uh

3110
01:45:40,390 --> 01:45:38,480
a desk job you know after this thing

3111
01:45:44,390 --> 01:45:40,400
happened because he actually

3112
01:45:49,430 --> 01:45:44,400
you know uh reported it

3113
01:45:53,750 --> 01:45:52,629
john callahan actually is a person that

3114
01:45:55,990 --> 01:45:53,760
speaks about that

3115
01:45:56,870 --> 01:45:56,000
uh now and what he saw that's what i

3116
01:45:59,590 --> 01:45:56,880
mean again

3117
01:46:00,390 --> 01:45:59,600
john not not having not having the the

3118
01:46:02,470 --> 01:46:00,400
actual account

3119
01:46:03,590 --> 01:46:02,480
the actual information so on available

3120
01:46:05,510 --> 01:46:03,600
to me right now

3121
01:46:06,709 --> 01:46:05,520
i don't know um it's an it's an

3122
01:46:09,030 --> 01:46:06,719
interesting question

3123
01:46:10,229 --> 01:46:09,040
i i note that a norm a remarkable number

3124
01:46:12,870 --> 01:46:10,239
of these sightings

3125
01:46:13,910 --> 01:46:12,880
happened to cargo to people to pilots of

3126
01:46:16,790 --> 01:46:13,920
cargo planes

3127
01:46:18,390 --> 01:46:16,800
not passenger planes yeah there are some

3128
01:46:21,270 --> 01:46:18,400
passengers matter of fact up

3129
01:46:22,229 --> 01:46:21,280
i had a personal friend on my show that

3130
01:46:23,990 --> 01:46:22,239
knew a commercial

3131
01:46:27,030 --> 01:46:24,000
pilot that had a very similar sighting

3132
01:46:28,310 --> 01:46:27,040
said it was shaped like a walnut as well

3133
01:46:30,229 --> 01:46:28,320
interesting and was that a passion

3134
01:46:31,270 --> 01:46:30,239
passenger flight that was a passenger

3135
01:46:33,350 --> 01:46:31,280
flight yes

3136
01:46:34,390 --> 01:46:33,360
okay yeah yeah i didn't say that all of

3137
01:46:36,229 --> 01:46:34,400
them were commercial flights so just

3138
01:46:38,550 --> 01:46:36,239
notice that a lot of the famous ones

3139
01:46:40,149 --> 01:46:38,560
are are cargo flights uh nash ford and

3140
01:46:43,189 --> 01:46:40,159
vari is a great example

3141
01:46:44,950 --> 01:46:43,199
oh yeah how about that never never uh

3142
01:46:47,189 --> 01:46:44,960
never thought of that but yeah they are

3143
01:46:50,470 --> 01:46:47,199
they are some fascinating cases

3144
01:46:52,790 --> 01:46:50,480
and it's just like you said you know

3145
01:46:53,990 --> 01:46:52,800
we are they are there's some weird stuff

3146
01:46:56,229 --> 01:46:54,000
up there there's some weird

3147
01:46:58,070 --> 01:46:56,239
stuff people are saying there's things

3148
01:46:59,109 --> 01:46:58,080
that one over the english channel that

3149
01:47:01,510 --> 01:46:59,119
look like

3150
01:47:02,310 --> 01:47:01,520
big yellow crafts so that's another

3151
01:47:05,750 --> 01:47:02,320
great one

3152
01:47:07,030 --> 01:47:05,760
unusual yeah um i also like to to point

3153
01:47:08,950 --> 01:47:07,040
out if you go back to

3154
01:47:10,550 --> 01:47:08,960
charles fort go back to some of the

3155
01:47:12,470 --> 01:47:10,560
really early investigators

3156
01:47:14,470 --> 01:47:12,480
you go back to the in some cases

3157
01:47:16,629 --> 01:47:14,480
medieval and renaissance sources

3158
01:47:17,510 --> 01:47:16,639
you can find descriptions of things very

3159
01:47:20,950 --> 01:47:17,520
like

3160
01:47:23,430 --> 01:47:20,960
what people are reporting now um

3161
01:47:25,750 --> 01:47:23,440
you know in things for the 14th century

3162
01:47:27,189 --> 01:47:25,760
in things from ancient rome

3163
01:47:29,430 --> 01:47:27,199
there are it's it's really quite

3164
01:47:31,109 --> 01:47:29,440
remarkable some of the weird things in

3165
01:47:34,870 --> 01:47:31,119
the skies have been there all along

3166
01:47:36,950 --> 01:47:34,880
that's clear um the question is what

3167
01:47:38,390 --> 01:47:36,960
does that mean what does that tell us

3168
01:47:39,830 --> 01:47:38,400
i don't know but it's it's gris for the

3169
01:47:41,030 --> 01:47:39,840
mill it's something that has to be taken

3170
01:47:43,189 --> 01:47:41,040
into account

3171
01:47:44,950 --> 01:47:43,199
when you occasionally get ufo

3172
01:47:45,430 --> 01:47:44,960
researchers from the extraterrestrial

3173
01:47:47,030 --> 01:47:45,440
side

3174
01:47:48,709 --> 01:47:47,040
who are who are insisting that no no

3175
01:47:50,550 --> 01:47:48,719
it's a recent high it's a recent event

3176
01:47:52,629 --> 01:47:50,560
they must have just arrived and the

3177
01:47:54,310 --> 01:47:52,639
evidence simply doesn't support that

3178
01:47:57,990 --> 01:47:54,320
they've been around whatever it is it's

3179
01:48:01,270 --> 01:48:00,550
right yeah just just to let you know we

3180
01:48:03,750 --> 01:48:01,280
have uh

3181
01:48:05,590 --> 01:48:03,760
oh i don't know maybe four minutes

3182
01:48:10,229 --> 01:48:05,600
something like that left

3183
01:48:11,910 --> 01:48:10,239
and uh your your books um

3184
01:48:13,510 --> 01:48:11,920
if you want to talk a little bit about

3185
01:48:16,950 --> 01:48:13,520
um where people can

3186
01:48:17,590 --> 01:48:16,960
find them actually and and a little bit

3187
01:48:20,950 --> 01:48:17,600
you know just

3188
01:48:22,709 --> 01:48:20,960
kind of what what is in you know the

3189
01:48:24,390 --> 01:48:22,719
your latest book basically what does it

3190
01:48:26,870 --> 01:48:24,400
cover exactly

3191
01:48:27,510 --> 01:48:26,880
sure um as far as my books generally you

3192
01:48:29,430 --> 01:48:27,520
can get them

3193
01:48:31,189 --> 01:48:29,440
from any full service bookstore or your

3194
01:48:32,149 --> 01:48:31,199
favorite online bookstore i'm all over

3195
01:48:33,590 --> 01:48:32,159
the place

3196
01:48:36,229 --> 01:48:33,600
i've got an amazon page if you want to

3197
01:48:39,669 --> 01:48:36,239
look me up john michael greer

3198
01:48:42,950 --> 01:48:39,679
this current one um the ufo chronicles

3199
01:48:43,669 --> 01:48:42,960
it's an attempt to sort out the ufo

3200
01:48:45,430 --> 01:48:43,679
phenomenon

3201
01:48:48,390 --> 01:48:45,440
starting with the recognition that it

3202
01:48:50,229 --> 01:48:48,400
has that it doesn't make any sense if we

3203
01:48:51,910 --> 01:48:50,239
assume that

3204
01:48:53,830 --> 01:48:51,920
if it wasn't a spacecraft it couldn't

3205
01:48:54,629 --> 01:48:53,840
have existed at all with the sort of

3206
01:48:59,350 --> 01:48:54,639
skeptic

3207
01:49:00,790 --> 01:48:59,360
the history of the ufo phenomenon gives

3208
01:49:03,590 --> 01:49:00,800
an overview the whole thing

3209
01:49:05,430 --> 01:49:03,600
talks about the bad logic that a lot of

3210
01:49:06,550 --> 01:49:05,440
skeptics use to try to pretend that

3211
01:49:07,669 --> 01:49:06,560
people are not seeing what they're

3212
01:49:08,950 --> 01:49:07,679
actually seeing

3213
01:49:10,550 --> 01:49:08,960
and then also talks about some of the

3214
01:49:12,070 --> 01:49:10,560
mistakes that have been made from by ufo

3215
01:49:13,350 --> 01:49:12,080
investigators in interpreting what

3216
01:49:14,229 --> 01:49:13,360
they're thinking and then goes on to

3217
01:49:16,629 --> 01:49:14,239
suggest

3218
01:49:18,310 --> 01:49:16,639
um and some explanations for at least

3219
01:49:22,149 --> 01:49:18,320
some of the phenomena

3220
01:49:25,350 --> 01:49:22,159
um the ufo chronicles from eon eon books

3221
01:49:27,430 --> 01:49:25,360
um it should be readily available um

3222
01:49:28,790 --> 01:49:27,440
you know at your favorite bookstore and

3223
01:49:29,830 --> 01:49:28,800
if not you can you can get them to order

3224
01:49:32,790 --> 01:49:29,840
it

3225
01:49:34,390 --> 01:49:32,800
i uh you just mentioned about you know

3226
01:49:35,030 --> 01:49:34,400
some of the mistakes ufologists have

3227
01:49:37,030 --> 01:49:35,040
made and

3228
01:49:38,950 --> 01:49:37,040
i know there's uh you know i've said

3229
01:49:42,229 --> 01:49:38,960
this on this show a few times it's

3230
01:49:44,470 --> 01:49:42,239
unfortunate that sometimes and

3231
01:49:45,510 --> 01:49:44,480
a few i can't i'm not going to say any

3232
01:49:48,950 --> 01:49:45,520
examples or

3233
01:49:49,750 --> 01:49:48,960
or can't none can come directly to mine

3234
01:49:51,430 --> 01:49:49,760
right now

3235
01:49:53,109 --> 01:49:51,440
but when they find out they're wrong

3236
01:49:55,109 --> 01:49:53,119
about a case

3237
01:49:57,270 --> 01:49:55,119
they they don't divorce themselves from

3238
01:49:59,189 --> 01:49:57,280
it they they just keep going

3239
01:50:01,189 --> 01:49:59,199
uh they keep going with what they have

3240
01:50:04,310 --> 01:50:01,199
and and uh you know even um

3241
01:50:06,550 --> 01:50:04,320
even to conferences and and talk about

3242
01:50:09,030 --> 01:50:06,560
yeah so that that does happen i mean

3243
01:50:10,629 --> 01:50:09,040
there's the human element in it

3244
01:50:12,550 --> 01:50:10,639
it's very human if you committed

3245
01:50:13,910 --> 01:50:12,560
yourself to a particular point of view

3246
01:50:14,550 --> 01:50:13,920
and then it turns out you're completely

3247
01:50:16,229 --> 01:50:14,560
wrong

3248
01:50:17,910 --> 01:50:16,239
about that with that thing it's really

3249
01:50:18,550 --> 01:50:17,920
embarrassing to say ouch yeah i was

3250
01:50:20,310 --> 01:50:18,560
wrong

3251
01:50:21,830 --> 01:50:20,320
um the one thing i'll say is that

3252
01:50:24,310 --> 01:50:21,840
generally speaking

3253
01:50:25,350 --> 01:50:24,320
the ufologists have done a better job

3254
01:50:26,870 --> 01:50:25,360
being reasonable

3255
01:50:28,629 --> 01:50:26,880
paying attention to the evidence and so

3256
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:28,639
on than the skeptics

3257
01:50:32,790 --> 01:50:30,400
one of the chapters in my book takes

3258
01:50:34,470 --> 01:50:32,800
these the basic skeptic arguments apart

3259
01:50:35,910 --> 01:50:34,480
and shows that they're based on logical

3260
01:50:38,470 --> 01:50:35,920
fallacies that are so old

3261
01:50:40,470 --> 01:50:38,480
they have names in latin so these people

3262
01:50:43,189 --> 01:50:40,480
who are crowing about science and reason

3263
01:50:45,109 --> 01:50:43,199
apparently have not made the um

3264
01:50:46,550 --> 01:50:45,119
acquaintance of science and reason

3265
01:50:48,550 --> 01:50:46,560
to the extent of anything like these

3266
01:50:50,070 --> 01:50:48,560
that they claim that's one of the points

3267
01:50:50,629 --> 01:50:50,080
that i make the skeptics have done very

3268
01:50:52,310 --> 01:50:50,639
badly

3269
01:50:54,070 --> 01:50:52,320
they had now i think many of them have

3270
01:50:54,550 --> 01:50:54,080
had reason to do so because a lot of

3271
01:50:56,629 --> 01:50:54,560
them

3272
01:50:57,910 --> 01:50:56,639
again have connections with the spook

3273
01:50:59,030 --> 01:50:57,920
with the spook world or with the air

3274
01:51:01,990 --> 01:50:59,040
force

3275
01:51:03,510 --> 01:51:02,000
right right well okay um that's it for

3276
01:51:03,910 --> 01:51:03,520
the show with you tonight thank you so

3277
01:51:05,669 --> 01:51:03,920
much

3278
01:51:07,990 --> 01:51:05,679
it was it's been a pleasure very

3279
01:51:10,790 --> 01:51:08,000
interesting

3280
01:51:11,750 --> 01:51:10,800
all right all right you take care and

3281
01:51:14,950 --> 01:51:11,760
you too now

3282
01:51:16,629 --> 01:51:14,960
all right all right everyone so uh that

3283
01:51:18,310 --> 01:51:16,639
is it for our show tonight i just wanted

3284
01:51:21,030 --> 01:51:18,320
to go into uh

3285
01:51:21,750 --> 01:51:21,040
what i mentioned earlier and that is uh

3286
01:51:23,910 --> 01:51:21,760
please

3287
01:51:25,430 --> 01:51:23,920
do either do one or two things if you

3288
01:51:27,270 --> 01:51:25,440
want to find out if if you're very

3289
01:51:29,750 --> 01:51:27,280
interested in watching the show live

3290
01:51:30,870 --> 01:51:29,760
of course uh next week you want to go

3291
01:51:33,910 --> 01:51:30,880
into

3292
01:51:35,430 --> 01:51:33,920
the uh youtube and subscribe and click

3293
01:51:36,550 --> 01:51:35,440
the bell and you'll get a notification

3294
01:51:40,070 --> 01:51:36,560
because right now i

3295
01:51:40,550 --> 01:51:40,080
don't know exactly when the show is

3296
01:51:42,149 --> 01:51:40,560
going to be

3297
01:51:44,229 --> 01:51:42,159
next week the live show part of it that

3298
01:51:47,109 --> 01:51:44,239
is if i do have the

3299
01:51:49,990 --> 01:51:47,119
body language panel up you can also go

3300
01:51:51,350 --> 01:51:50,000
to my website podcastufo.com and over on

3301
01:51:53,589 --> 01:51:51,360
the right-hand

3302
01:51:55,510 --> 01:51:53,599
sidebar you will see our weekly

3303
01:51:55,910 --> 01:51:55,520
newsletter sign up you drop your email

3304
01:51:57,830 --> 01:51:55,920
in

3305
01:51:59,430 --> 01:51:57,840
it's very simple and you'll get all

3306
01:52:00,709 --> 01:51:59,440
notifications of course you can be

3307
01:52:02,229 --> 01:52:00,719
removed from the list

3308
01:52:04,229 --> 01:52:02,239
same thing you can remove yourself from

3309
01:52:07,510 --> 01:52:04,239
the notifications on youtube

3310
01:52:10,629 --> 01:52:07,520
if it gets to be a pain for you and

3311
01:52:12,310 --> 01:52:10,639
so that next week it should be

3312
01:52:14,070 --> 01:52:12,320
the body language panel talking about

3313
01:52:16,470 --> 01:52:14,080
ufos and ufo

3314
01:52:17,350 --> 01:52:16,480
uh reports and what they thought and

3315
01:52:19,830 --> 01:52:17,360
it's it's

3316
01:52:21,270 --> 01:52:19,840
uh pretty amazing yeah i think it'll be

3317
01:52:24,550 --> 01:52:21,280
very enjoyable

3318
01:52:27,910 --> 01:52:24,560
and i think that is all i have

3319
01:52:29,910 --> 01:52:27,920
for today uh again check out the blog

3320
01:52:31,189 --> 01:52:29,920
uh you'll get an audio blog if you're in

3321
01:52:33,510 --> 01:52:31,199
the podcast

3322
01:52:35,669 --> 01:52:33,520
and uh we'll be back next week one way

3323
01:52:38,870 --> 01:52:35,679
or the other it might be the usual time

3324
01:52:41,910 --> 01:52:38,880
with uh someone from the uh hopkinsville

3325
01:52:44,880 --> 01:52:41,920
uh kelly incident anyway thanks so much

3326
01:52:56,830 --> 01:52:44,890
and remember to keep your eyes to the